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#447208 - Sun Nov 16 2008 02:08 AM C sounding like S grammar rule?
Copago Moderator Registered: Tue May 15 2001 Posts: 14384 Loc: Australia	Is there a rule for when the C in words like ace, fence and city sounds like an S? I'm finding it hard to explain when the C should be there and not the S.
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#447209 - Sun Nov 16 2008 03:01 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
ren33 Moderator Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999 Posts: 12593 Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong	I think it is something like this: When the letter c is followed by an e, i, or y it makes the s sound in cent. when followed by a,o and u it makes the c sound in cat _________________________ Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#447210 - Sun Nov 16 2008 04:14 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
Copago Moderator Registered: Tue May 15 2001 Posts: 14384 Loc: Australia	THat makes sense - thanks, Sara. I figured it would be you who answered - should have just sent you a PM! I think it's weird that I can look at a word and know straight away what it says but can't explain WHY it is.
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#447211 - Sun Nov 16 2008 09:26 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
agony Administrator Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003 Posts: 16595 Loc: Western Canada	Well, if you are attempting to make strict logical sense of English spelling, good luck to you! The Labours of Hercules would have nothing on it.
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#447212 - Sun Nov 16 2008 01:59 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
Copago Moderator Registered: Tue May 15 2001 Posts: 14384 Loc: Australia	Quote: Well, if you are attempting to make strict logical sense of English spelling, good luck to you! Isn't that the truth! I just say, now that more and more inconsistant words are popping up, that "this is one of those things that doesn't make sense and it's something we just have to remember". In a book he read the the day there was both CITY and WRITE and he commented about both of them .. why isn't that an S and why is the W there.
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#447213 - Sun Nov 16 2008 02:19 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
MadMags Star Poster Registered: Sat May 03 2008 Posts: 17092 Loc: Orosi Costa Rica	As I learn Spanish, (a fairly consistant language)I am realizing just how many exceptions to the rule there are in English. For example: bough tough cough Only the first letter changes, yet see how the pronounciation changes! Another example is done, cone, gone. It must be a hard language to learn as a second language. _________________________ A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. ~ Anon.
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#447214 - Sun Nov 16 2008 02:43 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
The_lioness33 Multiloquent Registered: Sat Feb 25 2006 Posts: 2869 Loc: Adelaide South Australia	One of these days I need to change my signature to: English doesn't borrow from other languages - it follows then down dark alleys, knocks them over, and then goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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#447215 - Sun Nov 16 2008 03:18 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
minkpenny Mainstay Registered: Fri Feb 28 2003 Posts: 931 Loc: Buenos Aires Argentina ...	Quote: It must be a hard language to learn as a second language. It is! Especially when you take into consideration examples like the ones you mentioned, MadMags. But I have to say that Spanish must also be a difficult language to learn as a second language... all those different tenses and different types of agreement! I always think that has to be confusing at first. _________________________ "It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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#447216 - Sun Nov 16 2008 03:24 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
agony Administrator Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003 Posts: 16595 Loc: Western Canada	lioness, that is fabulous!
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#447217 - Tue Nov 18 2008 09:15 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
Leau Forum Champion Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002 Posts: 5337 Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane	Quote: I think it is something like this: When the letter c is followed by an e, i, or y it makes the s sound in cent. when followed by a,o and u it makes the c sound in cat When I was learning French, my teacher would always call it "the cent and the circle rule" (forgetting about the y for simplicity's sake I guess). Because the examples are in the name of the rule, it made it very easy for us to remember when to pronounce the c as /s/ and when as /k/. _________________________ The cost of living has not affected its popularity - Loesje
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#447218 - Tue Nov 18 2008 01:05 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
Copago Moderator Registered: Tue May 15 2001 Posts: 14384 Loc: Australia	Struck me that this is a spelling rule and not a grammar rule oops We came across POOR yesterday - had never thought about it but there are four ways to spell it. POOR. POUR. PORE. PAW. And you can chuck PAUSE in there as well to make it all the more complicated. Quote: English doesn't borrow from other languages - it follows then down dark alleys, knocks them over, and then goes through their pockets for loose grammar. Not only does it knock them over but I think it shoots them ten times at point blank range with a .22 calibre rifle. So hard to explain this stuff to a little person! We need a thread dedicated to spelling rules so I don't have to keep asking, and you just know I will, over the next few years!
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#447219 - Tue Nov 18 2008 04:19 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
ren33 Moderator Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999 Posts: 12593 Loc: Kowloon Tong Hong Kong	Of course you will, and there are lots of us here who love questions like that and will answer with pleasure. _________________________ Wandering aimlessly through FT since 1999.
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#447220 - Wed Nov 19 2008 03:24 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
The_lioness33 Multiloquent Registered: Sat Feb 25 2006 Posts: 2869 Loc: Adelaide South Australia	I love things like that as well...if we had a thread like that I'd definitely read it lots.
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#447221 - Thu Nov 20 2008 07:24 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
tnrees Forum Adept Registered: Wed Mar 09 2005 Posts: 154 Loc: Taunton Somerset UK	There is the famous made up word GHOTI which is pronounce FISH.
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#447222 - Thu Nov 20 2008 08:51 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
jordandog Forum Champion Registered: Tue Apr 17 2007 Posts: 5097 Loc: Ohio USA	tnrees, I had forgotten all about that one! I remember it being illustrated to me in a class many years ago when we were discussing the difficulty of learning English for a foreigner. Wonderful example of the English flummox. _________________________ The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.-- Richard Bach [i]Illusions
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#447223 - Fri Nov 21 2008 08:09 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
SOTHC Registered: Tue Jun 10 2003 Posts: 16530 Loc: Aylesford Kent England UK	It must be very hard for visitors to the UK to get their tongues round some of our place names as they would seem to be relatively easy to pronounce. One of the villages near me is Trottiscliffe but it is pronounced Trosley _________________________ If it was a choice between being stuck in a buffalo jam in Yellowstone or a traffic jam on the M25, I know which one I would choose.
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#447224 - Fri Nov 21 2008 08:25 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
jordandog Forum Champion Registered: Tue Apr 17 2007 Posts: 5097 Loc: Ohio USA	So, you Brits not only add extra letters, such as 'U's to perfectly good words, you take away letters from long words for pronunciation? _________________________ The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.-- Richard Bach [i]Illusions
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#447225 - Sat Nov 22 2008 07:25 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
MadMags Star Poster Registered: Sat May 03 2008 Posts: 17092 Loc: Orosi Costa Rica	Ahem, the entire English-speaking world uses the U in words such as humour, it is only you Americans who leave it out. _________________________ A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. ~ Anon.
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#447226 - Sat Nov 22 2008 12:09 PM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
jordandog Forum Champion Registered: Tue Apr 17 2007 Posts: 5097 Loc: Ohio USA	Are thoUse fighting woUrds, Mags? See that? I can toss around the 'U's with the best of 'em! _________________________ The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.-- Richard Bach [i]Illusions
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#447227 - Sun Nov 23 2008 03:04 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
MadMags Star Poster Registered: Sat May 03 2008 Posts: 17092 Loc: Orosi Costa Rica	I see that, jourdandoug _________________________ A smile is a curved line that sets things straight. ~ Anon.
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#447228 - Tue Nov 25 2008 06:34 AM Re: C sounding like S grammar rule?
tnrees Forum Adept Registered: Wed Mar 09 2005 Posts: 154 Loc: Taunton Somerset UK	Mostly the problem is the spoked language changes but printers keep to the same spelling which once matched pronunciation but now does not. However I believe the H in the river Thames came because someone thought it looked nice.
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