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#466225 - Wed Apr 08 2009 04:43 PM Rewarding Crossword Authors
darthrevan89 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 13 2008
Posts: 760
Loc: Texas USA
Let me preface this by saying, I am not trying to create problems/more work for Terry. I'd just like to see what others think, and maybe throw some ideas out there for future upgrades.

I know on the "Create Crossword" page it says that the crossword project is still under construction, but it seems like it's in excellent shape to me. I've written one crossword and it was really fun, it's a little disappointing not to have any rating system in place to see what others thought. It would no doubt be a major thing to do retroactively, but I think it would encourage sincere authors. Badges might help too , but for most of us I think five crosswords is quite a challenge.

Anyone else have thoughts on this (or ideas about why it wouldn't work so I can quit wondering)?

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#466226 - Wed Apr 08 2009 05:42 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
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I think 5 crosswords is relatively low for a badge. There's nothing really rewarding those who write more. I mean, quizzes are my main focus hands down, but I really haven't felt encouraged to delve back into crosswords.
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#466227 - Wed Apr 08 2009 06:11 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
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The only reason I continue to make crosswords - and I've recently had my 40th put online - is because I really enjoy making them. Much the same way as Kyle and his quizzes. He has over 800 on the site - there are no badges really left to play for but he clearly enjoys doing it (I won't put words in his mouth :>). I feel the same about crosswords and I'm not too concerned if there are extra incentives added.

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#466228 - Wed Apr 08 2009 09:14 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
funnybuni Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 14 2008
Posts: 301
Loc: Florida USA
Quote:

The only reason I continue to make crosswords - and I've recently had my 40th put online - is because I really enjoy making them. Much the same way as Kyle and his quizzes. He has over 800 on the site - there are no badges really left to play for but he clearly enjoys doing it (I won't put words in his mouth :>). I feel the same about crosswords and I'm not too concerned if there are extra incentives added.




Ditto. Plus, making the crosswords (for me) hasn't proved to be too hard, so making five should be a challenge, but worth it! It's been good for my mind!
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#466229 - Wed Apr 08 2009 11:51 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Midget40 Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5100
Loc: Perth WesternAustralia
I've actually thought this a few times lately.

It's great that we now get points for playing them but there's only the one badge to get for writing them and no rating system.

I enjoyed the ones I wrote but it was very challenging (and frustrating LOL)I have thought about writing some more but the incentive isn't there.

I like working towards a goal and a badge is an obvious sign of accomplishment.

I don't mean that I only do things for badges but if I have a choice at the moment between working on a quiz (that is slowly working toward my 100 badge) or a crossword that is its only reward I will choose the quiz

I imagine it would be nice for those who prefer writing crosswords AND like badges to have some of the same recognition that quiz writers do

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#466230 - Thu Apr 09 2009 05:47 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool DurhamEnglandUK
There are only 48 people who have the current Crossword Author badge. I was surprised by this as there are over 1200 crosswords online. I think this most likely shows that the dedicated crossword authors do it for the enjoyment and pleasure they get from making them, rather than reward, and other people do one or two and decide it isn't for them.
Whether a badge for 20, 50, 100 or whatever would act as an incentive is debatable given that so few people have even made it to 5. That said, I suppose it means that extra badges wouldn't encourage poor quality submissions as seems to be the worry with quizzes.
I did one and got "hooked" lol, they're great fun to write, even if they can be the last word in frustration at times too I don't mind about there not being ratings, as I think the urge to rate one down because a player can't do it might be overwhelming. It would just end up with the easiest ones having the highest ratings a lot of the time I think. There isn't the scope for the "I learned something from this so I will rate it good" that there is with a quiz.
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#466231 - Thu Apr 09 2009 09:01 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll CumbriaUK
I agree with Rowena's comments about Crossword Badges and Ratings.

Creating crosswords is like creating quizzes in that either you like to do it or you don't. It's nice to have a badge for managing to get five crosswords on-line, but for me it's the fascination of trying to find words that will fit the pattern I have in mind that provides the thrill of achievement.

Having said that, I shouldn't turn down a Badge for 10, 20, 50 or more should it be offered!

Ratings - this could be tricky, as I suspect there would be a strong instinct (especially from those who don't appreciate the work that goes into a crossword) to rate low if the crossword isn't easy. We know that this happens with quizzes. Because crossword clues tend to be much shorter than quiz questions, one has to "get on the same wavelength" as the author to work out clues easily.

So, basically, more badges would be nice, but not essential, and ratings wouldn't have much meaning.
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#466232 - Thu Apr 09 2009 10:39 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
darthrevan89 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue May 13 2008
Posts: 760
Loc: Texas USA
I absolutely agree that one should write crosswords because they like to do so, not simply to get the badge. More badges could lead to inferior crosswords, I believe this is why there are some caps on the Quiz badges as well (like, no 20 Category badge). Still, amazing authors like Kyle deserve some special badges, I think.

Thank y'all for explaining why crosswords don't need ratings - you've convinced me.

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#466233 - Thu Apr 09 2009 11:09 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 23673
Loc: near Stafford, VirginiaUSA
Quote:

Still, amazing authors like Kyle deserve some special badges, I think.




Jazz and Nightmare belong here, too. They're both over 1,000 quizzes, and, in fact, Nightmare is now # 1 with over 1,200!
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#466234 - Thu Apr 09 2009 12:05 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
funnybuni Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 14 2008
Posts: 301
Loc: Florida USA
Quote:

Nightmare is now # 1 with over 1,200!




Although I believe 1,200 is Nightmare's last quiz? Ran out of ideas, perhaps? Oh well, it will give me time to catch up... which will be never, but I can dream, can't I?

So long as you can see how challenging your crossword is, and if you can get correction notices and compliments, I'm fine with the system.
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#466235 - Thu Apr 09 2009 02:57 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Midget40 Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5100
Loc: Perth WesternAustralia
Quote:


Whether a badge for 20, 50, 100 or whatever would act as an incentive is debatable given that so few people have even made it to 5. That said, I suppose it means that extra badges wouldn't encourage poor quality submissions as seems to be the worry with quizzes.





I think that is why we were calling it a reward for those that are doing them rather than an incentive.

I think it could work as an incentive for those (like myself) who have got the five online but aren't doing more LOL

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#466236 - Thu Apr 09 2009 04:18 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Nightmare Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
Quote:

Jazz and Nightmare belong here, too. They're both over 1,000 quizzes, and, in fact, Nightmare is now # 1 with over 1,200!



Quote:

Although I believe 1,200 is Nightmare's last quiz? Ran out of ideas, perhaps?



Thanks for the kudo Dave. FB- I stopped at 1201 for no particular reason. I'll never run out of ideas for quizzes. A badge (to me) really isn't necessary for anything. Badges are just too self-serving. You do what you do for others to share and hopefully enjoy, without the "Hey, look at me!" mentality. As the movie goes, "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" That's just my opinion. Good luck with your endeavors too Kyle. You've reached a tremendous milestone also in the site! :-)


Edited by Nightmare (Thu Apr 09 2009 04:22 PM)
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#466237 - Thu Apr 09 2009 05:36 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 8008
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:


Thanks for the kudo Dave. FB- I stopped at 1201 for no particular reason. I'll never run out of ideas for quizzes. A badge (to me) really isn't necessary for anything. Badges are just too self-serving. You do what you do for others to share and hopefully enjoy, without the "Hey, look at me!" mentality. As the movie goes, "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" That's just my opinion. Good luck with your endeavors too Kyle. You've reached a tremendous milestone also in the site! :-)




Stepping on #1201 is only one step in the objective for me.
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#466238 - Thu Apr 09 2009 11:25 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 23673
Loc: near Stafford, VirginiaUSA
I know you'll never run out of quiz ideas, Nightmare. I'm looking forward to seeing 1,500, then 2,000, etc.

No problem on the kudos, either. You're the most prolific author here!
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The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#466239 - Thu Apr 09 2009 11:42 PM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Midget40 Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5100
Loc: Perth WesternAustralia
[quote A badge (to me) really isn't necessary for anything. Badges are just too self-serving. You do what you do for others to share and hopefully enjoy, without the "Hey, look at me!" mentality. As the movie goes, "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" That's just my opinion.




I respect your opinion but I think you would agree, after being on the site for so long, that your mentally is in the minority. An awful lot of people on here want the badges and it's what motivates them to keep going.

If they want some form of recognition or reward for all their hard work I don't see what the harm in it is.

Human beings are at their happiest when they are working toward a goal, not when they have achieved it and a lot of people dont (or cant) set their own goals and get the same satisfaction.

Just another point of view

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#466240 - Fri Apr 10 2009 06:46 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
funnybuni Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 14 2008
Posts: 301
Loc: Florida USA
You are both right. I love to get badges and work towards them, but that's not the only reason I'm on the site. I just love to play/make quizzes!
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#466241 - Sat Apr 11 2009 01:41 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
dg_dave Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 23673
Loc: near Stafford, VirginiaUSA
Quote:

Quote:

A badge (to me) really isn't necessary for anything. Badges are just too self-serving. You do what you do for others to share and hopefully enjoy, without the "Hey, look at me!" mentality. As the movie goes, "We don't need no stinkin' badges!" That's just my opinion.




I respect your opinion but I think you would agree, after being on the site for so long, that your mentality is in the minority. An awful lot of people on here want the badges and it's what motivates them to keep going.




It seems more of the newer members are that way - just here for badges and the like. Terry has done wonders with this site since I've been a member (just over eight years now). I'm in agreement with Nightmare here, and not just because I'm a long-term member. I don't think one should "beef up" their ratings and all just to squash someone else. Not only that, but there's a thread/FAQ response that says not to advertise your own quizzes in the forums.

Quote:

If they want some form of recognition or reward for all their hard work I don't see what the harm in it is.




I think the best recognition/satisfaction on quiz making is to rate the quizzes that you take...fairly of course.

Midget, take a look at Nightmare's signature line on his posts. That says a lot in itself! You do, however, make a couple of very valid points. People want to be motivated, and I do think Terry's done well in that aspect (for people who are in that mode of play). It's just not for me, either, just as it isn't for Nightmare.
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The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#466242 - Sat Apr 11 2009 08:24 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Midget40 Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5100
Loc: Perth WesternAustralia
Quote:


I don't think one should "beef up" their ratings and all just to squash someone else. Not only that, but there's a thread/FAQ response that says not to advertise your own quizzes in the forums.






I may be being a bit obtuse here (or stupid) but I don't quite get the connection here.

How does getting some form of acknowledgement 'beef up' your ratings? My understanding of beefing things up is to like to pad them or artificially inflate something.

If you earn a badge or whatever you earned it and it doesn't have any bearing on anyone else at all. You getting something doesn't detract anything from anything else - in fact everyone has the same chance to get the same acknowledgement if they put the work in.

And I haven't seen anyone advertising a quiz here?

And no I'm not being argumentative - something has obviously gone right over my head here.

Everyone is entitled to what they believe in and what their sense of achievement is.

I just don't really think it's fair to say that people who like badges are saying "Hey look at me", we are often just saying "Yes. I did it! Okay whats next?"

We are also different because I'm not as into the ratings - that is other people evaluating my work and achievements. I'm more interested in evaluating my own and achieving goals I've set myself.

But thats where the saying 'different strokes' comes from

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#466243 - Sat Apr 11 2009 09:49 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 3613
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia�USA�...
There actually is a thread on these boards for people to mention their highest rated quizzes (not by name, just by rating), and it has been a source of concern to some of the administrators. In theory, the thread is just to list stats about how authors' best quizzes are doing, without actually calling out which quizzes they are and using the thread as an advertisement for the quizzes themselves. Some people have used it for the right purpose, and others have used it to attract plays to their quizzes.

I do like the rating system because it helps me find quizzes that I might find interesting. If you've enjoyed a good thing, it is good to let others know, because like many other things, word of mouth helps guide people to quizzes that are worth their while.

Different strokes, I guess.
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#466244 - Sat Apr 11 2009 09:57 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
SilverMoonsong Offline
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Registered: Sun Nov 07 1999
Posts: 3976
Loc: Durham, NorthCarolinaUSA
This thread is no longer about Crossword authors, so you need to either get it back on track or start/find the appropriate thread about quizzes/badges/ratings.
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#466245 - Sat Apr 11 2009 10:30 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
Midget40 Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5100
Loc: Perth WesternAustralia
No disrespect intended Silver but I was still defending the right for Crossword authors to have more acknowledgement whether that be a badge or something else which is what the thread began as.

Thanks for the explanation of what else it was referring to Sue.

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#466246 - Sat Apr 11 2009 10:40 AM Re: Rewarding Crossword Authors
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 3613
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia�USA�...
Sorry for getting off track. I thought that the thread was comparing the need for ratings for Crosswords as compared to ratings for Quizzes.
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