#468346 - Tue Apr 21 2009 08:13 AM
Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
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I actually got this idea from a question asked in another thread, and thought it would make a good topic- What habits and or words/expressions are thought completely alright in one culture or language but are an insult to another? For instance, here in the US, among the Amish [ who are hardworking, polite and thought to be modest people ] a loud belch is considered a compliment to the meal. Imagine how heads would turn in a restaurant filled with non -Amish diners, who would consider it incredibly rude. I know there are lots of examples out there. And as Sue has pointed out, this is a family site, so...ah... just imply, if you have to! 
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#468347 - Tue Apr 21 2009 08:34 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 14 2003
Posts: 8867
Loc: France
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In my home town, and probably throughout Ireland/UK, I believe it would be considered bad manners to wipe your plate with your bread, unless in very a familiar, family environment, and even then it wouldn't be too well appreciated. However, in France (or at least amongst the family and friends I have here in France) it's the norm and very much the done thing to hand back a 'clean' plate to the hostess at the end of your meal. One of the reasons for this is the French custom of using only one plate for the whole meal (startes thru desserts) (for casual invitations, I mean, not restaurant or classy affaires!). If you have a liquid sauce on your meat or fish dish it could seriously affect the flavour of your cheese or dessert were they to be placed in the middle of your un-wiped gravy. It's a cultural thing, I guess. Same as using the afroementioned bread to scoop food onto your fork. Very commonly done here in France; very no-no 'back home'. Another food-related one: Cutlery is usually placed face down on French tables, and glasses are placed to centre of the place 'above' the plate, not to the right. The cutlery thing is because the Bourgeois liked to show off the manufacturers brand stamped on the reverse of their fancy cutlery. The glass to the centre as opposed to the side is simply for esthetics - it looks more balanced to have one central glass than one off to the side. And one last: French people are much more fortright about asking where the toilet is, they don't hide behind a euphemism like 'the ladies' 'spend a penny' 'the smallest room in the house' but ask straightforwardly 'Where are the toilets?' 
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#468348 - Tue Apr 21 2009 09:10 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38004
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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On the eating front again, in the UK it is normal (as in good manners) to eat off the back of your fork, never to use it as a scoop. I noticed recently at a dinner when I was sitting next to a German boy he used his fork more as I would use a spoon.
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#468350 - Tue Apr 21 2009 09:32 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Administrator
Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 38004
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands
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I think I have confused you Leau, I didn't mean that I would use a spoon for my main course, I meant he used it as a scoop and didn't eat from the back of it.  Only children would use a spoon here for their main course here too, adults use just a knife and fork.
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Many a child has been spoiled because you can't spank a Grandma!
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#468351 - Tue Apr 21 2009 10:11 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Prolific
Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
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One of the big banks ran a series of adverts here showing people as foreigners in various countries doing things that were unintentionally rude. One I recall was a young guy with his bare feet up to display the soles. I think it was Thailand (but could have been somewhere else in that part of the world) and all the local people going past were shocked at him.
Another was small children in either Italy or Greece making a hand gesture that is beloved of Rock fans here but is apparently the local equivalent of sticking two fingers up at someone.
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#468352 - Tue Apr 21 2009 10:20 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Star Poster
Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18899
Loc: California USA
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That's interesting because I think the French customs vary. I think they use the word 'saucer' for the use of bread to clean the last sauce off the plate. I think it's not as polite as all that depending on the group you're frequenting. I've heard it's frowned upon in etiquette books. I read a few for an article I was writing.
And I think that if you had to keep your plate for salad or cheese or dessert in many of the French households I know, even in a home, it would be a shock.
In a restaurant, they'll change plates so often you'll wonder which way is up.
The points of the fork are down and the spoon is atop the plate if memory serves me well.
There are several customs that people told me but they varied from one household or group to another.
Keeping your hand on your lap and eating would be considered rude in France and polite in America.
I always figured it came from our frontier days when you might require your gun very quickly so had to have your hand near your gunbelt!
Cutting bread is frowned upon in some households...you have to break it. This would be considered old fashioned in some places though now.
in France I was told not to cut salad with a fork and knife but to fold it around the fork with the knife.
I tried to avoid offending anyone during my stay, but I doubt if that would have been possible.
Some people eat fruit with a knife and fork in France, even peaches.
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#468353 - Tue Apr 21 2009 10:36 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Moderator
Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 41461
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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Quote:
In my home town, and probably throughout Ireland/UK, I believe it would be considered bad manners to wipe your plate with your bread, unless in very a familiar, family environment, and even then it wouldn't be too well appreciated.
However, in France (or at least amongst the family and friends I have here in France) it's the norm and very much the done thing to hand back a 'clean' plate to the hostess at the end of your meal.
One of the reasons for this is the French custom of using only one plate for the whole meal (startes thru desserts) (for casual invitations, I mean, not restaurant or classy affaires!). If you have a liquid sauce on your meat or fish dish it could seriously affect the flavour of your cheese or dessert were they to be placed in the middle of your un-wiped gravy. It's a cultural thing, I guess.
My grandparents come from Southern Italy and I learned that 'cleaning up your plate with your bread' trick from him too, so guess it's an Italian thing as well (only accept at my grandparents' house however, would never try at an Italian restaurant!) While it's true that at my grandparents' house some of us will use the same plate for pasta, salad, meat, fruit, whatever, I always just thought the cleaning up the sauce with the bread was because we like my grandmother's sauce so much 
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#468355 - Tue Apr 21 2009 11:10 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK
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I think you are missing the anthropological slant of this thread Anton. It's about differences from a cultural perspective, rather than 'bad manners offend me' Rather like the difficulty some English people have keeping a straight face when someone walks up to you and says 'Hi, I'm Randy' Offering to knock someone up can be misunderstood too. I was often knocked up by friends on their way to college.
Edited by Jabberwok (Tue Apr 21 2009 11:11 AM)
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#468356 - Tue Apr 21 2009 11:22 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Forum Adept
Registered: Wed Jul 23 2008
Posts: 140
Loc: Hamler Ohio USA
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AH HAHA! Thank you Jabberwok, for my first laugh of the day.
When I was a youngin we had a neighbor affectionately called Pete the Greek. My mother warned me regularly not to let him hear the words "shut up", that to him it meant go to (Hades).Never found out if that was true,but always wondered.
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#468357 - Tue Apr 21 2009 11:42 AM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Forum Champion
Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 5007
Loc: Western Australia
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When I first moved to the US, I quickly learned that some of the things I said were considered rude in America (but they were perfectly okay in Australia). I once said something in all innocence that had my husband and his best friend rolling on the floor with laughter because they knew I couldn't possibly have meant what I said and I was told quite firmly not to say that again in mixed company. And no, I won't even hint at what it was because it still embarrasses me after 28 years.
I remember getting my first job in California and asking where the toilet was. The girl I asked looked at me like I crawled out from under a rock. We had an interesting discussion about terminology and she advised me to say bathroom instead of toilet. I told her toilet is what Australians said when we were being polite and gave her a few examples of what we normally call it. Also told her that calling it the bathroom would confuse Australians because (back in those days) it was not common for toilets to be located in bathrooms. They were usually located in a small room of their own.
A friend of mine recently went to America for a visit and absolutely refused to refer to it as "the bathroom" and when people corrected her, she purposely said "No, I don't want to take a bath, I want to use the toilet".
I've been to Brunei a couple of times to visit my friend who lives there and some of the things we were advised about that were offensive or forbidden were: casual touching and public displays of affection, smacking the fist of your right hand into your left palm (very obscene), pointing with your finger, and sitting in such a way as to point the soles of your feet at someone else.
Edited by MotherGoose (Tue Apr 21 2009 11:47 AM)
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#468358 - Tue Apr 21 2009 12:25 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
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Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
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#468359 - Tue Apr 21 2009 12:46 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK
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Eating with your fork tines down is considered normal good table manners over here. My son only shovels when he's eating alone, my daughter never does.
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#468362 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:05 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Forum Champion
Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
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Anton, apparently you fail to see the intend of this topic. It's meant to be an exchange of what is normal/rude in different cultures around the world. If that upsets you, may I suggest you skip this topic from now on?
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#468363 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:14 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Mainstay
Registered: Thu Dec 28 2006
Posts: 930
Loc: Carson City
Nevada USA
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If there is a 'picture' of someone eating with the fork, tines down, I would be very interested in seeing it! Better yet, a video. I have never seen it done, either. I think this is a wonderful exchange of culture info! Thanks.
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#468364 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:15 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Mainstay
Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
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Quote:
Anton, apparently you fail to see the intend of this topic. It's meant to be an exchange of what is normal/rude in different cultures around the world. If that upsets you, may I suggest you skip this topic from now on?
And yet, you failed to see my point. I was asking if it is rude where you all live.
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#468365 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:31 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK
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Anton, in my house you get a wallop on the rear for doing that. Same as wandering around the house eating biscuits etc without a plate. I'm not talking about visitors, but housebreaking children and spouses. Ask away, otherwise how will you learn? Do remember though that I'm a very posh schoolteacher, who was brought up properly, so I am at the cutting edge of etiquette. Nerdlet can fold linen napkins into waterlilies and all sorts. :P
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#468366 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:41 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Registered: Tue Sep 05 2006
Posts: 14562
Loc: Bucharest Romania
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Veronica, I have found some 'instructions' and photos about using the fork differently, hope they can be of any help The American Way:When you need to cut something, you should hold the fork in your left hand and the knife in your right hand.
After cutting off a small piece, you put your knife and fork down, pick the fork up with your right hand and eat it. - Photo 1The European Way:After cutting off a small piece, you put the food directly into your mouth with your left hand. - Photo 2So the position of the fork is different, but you don't actually put food into your mouth with the tines down. They are down while you cut food. At least that's what I think was discussed in here  .
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#468367 - Tue Apr 21 2009 01:49 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK
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What? One should impale the piece of food with the tines and lift it towards the mouth. The food goes into the mouth with the fork tines down. What's the point of spending your formative years learning the art of balancing peas and mash on the back of your fork it you're just going to turn the fork over to put it into your mouth? I don't know whether this link will work http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/artic...ting/article.do Shocking, isn't it?
Edited by Jabberwok (Tue Apr 21 2009 01:57 PM)
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#468368 - Tue Apr 21 2009 02:00 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Mainstay
Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
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Quote:
Anton, in my house you get a wallop on the rear for doing that. Same as wandering around the house eating biscuits etc without a plate. I'm not talking about visitors, but housebreaking children and spouses.
Ask away, otherwise how will you learn?
Do remember though that I'm a very posh schoolteacher, who was brought up properly, so I am at the cutting edge of etiquette.
Nerdlet can fold linen napkins into waterlilies and all sorts. :P
Ah, well I can see how eating a biscuit around the house would be problematic. Crumbs have a knack for getting everywhere. But, in my opinion, eating over the sink is easier than eating at the table. lol
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#468369 - Tue Apr 21 2009 02:06 PM
Re: Vulgarity and obscenity around the world
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK
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We're not talking about the easiest ways, but the polite way.
I used to share a house with an American who ate porridge with his right hand. He said it was easier and quicker, because his hand held exactly the amount of porridge that filled his mouth, whereas a spoon was too small. Logical but mannerless.
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'The United Kingdom. Slightly smaller than Oregon'
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Here, everyone holds their fork like a scoop...
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