#480820 - Fri Jul 03 2009 12:58 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue May 26 2009
Posts: 473
Loc: Florida USA
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I was outside smoking a cigarette, and I had an idea concerning these individual questions. It's probably a stupid idea but I'll say it anyway.
Okay, you know how it can be a long and arduous process in creating a quiz in of itself (unless you know English grammar like the back of your hand)? I have 1 quiz, and ended up deleting another for reasons I've stated already (here or elsewhere) which really isn't important but most people who write quizzes and questions will always have more questions submitted than quizzes, right? So, what if, if possible, we were able to create a quiz with already accepted questions in the Question Quest?
Example:
I submit 10 questions in literature, all 10 are accepted. That's enough to make a quiz.
We'd be able to create a quiz with the individual questions we create, and that way they don't have to go through all the red tape of creating a quiz when the questions are already on the website, and rated/answered by individual members (probably best based on ratings).
Probably a far-fetched idea but it would help those who find it difficult to make a quiz, when, they can just make the questions, have them accepted by the Editors etc., and then rated by the members in the Question Quiz challenge, and then those rated at a specific percentage in the positive can be set aside for a future quiz.
Just an idea.
-Nam
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I'm on the road less traveled...
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#480821 - Fri Jul 03 2009 01:03 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Tue Jun 19 2007
Posts: 1309
Loc: Dijon France via S Wales UK
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You are missing the point completely!
If you were able to get 10 questions accepted on a particular category, then you would be more than capable of writing a quiz in the first place!
I've just taken your one online quiz. I know very little about the subject, but I LEARNT from taking it.
Whilst the grammar and sentence structure is not perfect, your questions are easily read, and contain none of the 'faff' that is prevalent in literature quizzes.
All in all - a good quiz, and rated as such!
Edited by delboy22 (Fri Jul 03 2009 01:13 AM)
_________________________
Quiz author - Crossword author - Proud leader of 'Torrential Reign' - Terry Fords biggest fan - and part-time nice bloke 
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#480822 - Fri Jul 03 2009 01:10 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue May 26 2009
Posts: 473
Loc: Florida USA
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Quote:
You are missing the point completely!
If you were able to get 10 questions accepted on a particular category, then you would be more than capable of writing a quiz in the first place!
An actual quiz takes more thought, though. You're actually trying to perfect it so it can be accepted. There's more pressure; especially based on all the rules in each individual section for each individual quiz. Here, each individual question is accepted by an Editor, and then edited by the members when warranted. It's actually easier to create a quiz this way than to do it the other way (the long and arduous way).
With an individual question, there's no pressure. Or the pressure is minimal because it's just one question.
Also, with a regular quiz, you have an Editor trying to help you edit, see what the errors are, yet with the individual questions you have the website telling you exactly what is wrong, and how you can fix it. An Editor may not do that 'cause it's time consuming. I find my idea simpler. Some people need simple and less pressure, and some people do not, and like the pressure.
-Nam
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I'm on the road less traveled...
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#480823 - Fri Jul 03 2009 01:14 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Tue Jun 19 2007
Posts: 1309
Loc: Dijon France via S Wales UK
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Read my edit on my previous post .......
_________________________
Quiz author - Crossword author - Proud leader of 'Torrential Reign' - Terry Fords biggest fan - and part-time nice bloke
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#480825 - Fri Jul 03 2009 04:26 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Forum Champion
Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
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Quote:
Also, with a regular quiz, you have an Editor trying to help you edit, see what the errors are, yet with the individual questions you have the website telling you exactly what is wrong, and how you can fix it. An Editor may not do that 'cause it's time consuming.
Uhm, I think you have the wrong idea about the single questions. They are NOT edited "by the website". Every single question is edited by an editor, who then either accepts it or picks an applicable reason for rejection. So whether it's an entire quiz or a single question, it's those same editors that deal with them.
And for quizzes, editors DO take the time to help you realise what's wrong. It's just that we expect a basic ability in English, it's not our job to teach the quiz author a (new) language. That's why we advise people who have difficulties with spelling or grammar to ask a friend or teacher to proofread their quiz.
Leau, editor
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The cost of living has not affected its popularity - Loesje
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#480826 - Fri Jul 03 2009 05:05 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue May 26 2009
Posts: 473
Loc: Florida USA
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Quote:
Uhm, I think you have the wrong idea about the single questions. They are NOT edited "by the website". Every single question is edited by an editor, who then either accepts it or picks an applicable reason for rejection. So whether it's an entire quiz or a single question, it's those same editors that deal with them.
Then why even have the "are there any errors" part if an Editor edits them? I see mistakes all the time on individual quizzes, and sometimes even in the Question Quest. If Editors are editing them, then why are there errors? I can understand one or two (variously) getting past an Editor but a plethora of them? Doesn't make sense. Oh, and I'm primarily speaking about spelling errors since, usually, the rest I have only minor knowledge to. I see spacing issues at times; recently saw one on an editors quiz I took but I didn't point it out 'cause the last time I pointed out an error on an editors quiz they jumped down my throat (but actually corrected the error afterward). So, I don't point out errors on editors' quizzes anymore.
Quote:
And for quizzes, editors DO take the time to help you realise what's wrong. It's just that we expect a basic ability in English, it's not our job to teach the quiz author a (new) language. That's why we advise people who have difficulties with spelling or grammar to ask a friend or teacher to proofread their quiz.
Some people do not have that luxury; and even if they did, who says their friend (or for that matter their teacher) has the capability of knowing such grammar, as well?
My point, in all that I state above is: the individual questions, which have a rating system, and an error report system for each individual question (which people get points for, so there's an incentive) makes it easier not only on the editors who have to deal with all the quizzes themselves but also the questions (apparently), for them to be edited easier, and more efficiently.
They click on the error button, they type exactly what the error is (the members taking the Question Quest), and the author fixes it, and in that process learns the correct way to do it.
I'm not knocking the job of the editor. I know it must be difficult at times, and stressing (especially since all editors are volunteers I assume?) but this would not only alleviate such things but make things more efficient for everyone.
The editors wouldn't have to "edit" the Question Quest questions; all they'd have to do is make sure they are within the rules of the website, make sure that the particular question is acceptable for the particular category it is for, and that's it. The members, in a way, become the "editors" by taking the Question Quest, and seeing that if they rate it, point out errors (or what not) and get some minor points for doing so, they not only get something but also give something back: knowledge.
Call it a more efficient teaching tool. Editors are not teachers but individual members, in a way, can be, in such regard.
-Nam
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I'm on the road less traveled...
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#480827 - Fri Jul 03 2009 05:25 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Forum Champion
Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
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Quote:
Then why even have the "are there any errors" part if an Editor edits them?
Because it's YOUR job as a quizmaker to make sure your quiz/question is error-free before you submit it. It's not our job as editors to do your work for you.
Quote:
I see mistakes all the time on individual quizzes, and sometimes even in the Question Quest. If Editors are editing them, then why are there errors? I can understand one or two (variously) getting past an Editor but a plethora of them? Doesn't make sense. Oh, and I'm primarily speaking about spelling errors since, usually, the rest I have only minor knowledge to.
As has been stated in this forum many, many times already, whenever you see an error in a quiz/question, send a correction note! That is the only way we can catch all these errors you're talking about. There's no point in only complaining that there are so many errors when you don't send correction notes.
I doubt that we have quizzes online that have a 'plethora' of errors in them, by the way. The quizzes that went online in the 'early days' (2000, 2001) were not held against the strict guidelines we have today, but should still not contain many spelling errors.
Quote:
I see spacing issues at times; recently saw one on an editors quiz I took but I didn't point it out 'cause the last time I pointed out an error on an editors quiz they jumped down my throat (but actually corrected the error afterward). So, I don't point out errors on editors' quizzes anymore.
Different countries have different spacing rules, so what looks wrong to you might be perfectly acceptable in another country. However, if you see an inconsistency, again, please send a correction note! Even if it's a quiz that was written by an editor! If your notes are polite and valid, nobody will 'jump down your throat'. In fact, we appreciate it when members take the time to send a correction note.
Quote:
Quote:
And for quizzes, editors DO take the time to help you realise what's wrong. It's just that we expect a basic ability in English, it's not our job to teach the quiz author a (new) language. That's why we advise people who have difficulties with spelling or grammar to ask a friend or teacher to proofread their quiz.
Some people do not have that luxury; and even if they did, who says their friend (or for that matter their teacher) has the capability of knowing such grammar, as well?
I'm not talking about very fancy grammar, just the ability to form a grammatical English sentence. If you can't do that and can't find anybody to help you with it, then quizwriting probably is not for you. (Clearly, I am not talking about *you* personally in this case, as - purely looking at your forum posts - your sentences look grammatical to me!)
Quote:
The editors wouldn't have to "edit" the Question Quest questions; all they'd have to do is make sure they are within the rules of the website, make sure that the particular question is acceptable for the particular category it is for, and that's it.
That is basically already what we do. We aren't editors in the way that magazines have editors, ie. we don't re-write quizzes for authors. We are just well informed about the Funtrivia guidelines and make sure that what goes online is suitable for this website and has the quality that we require.
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The cost of living has not affected its popularity - Loesje
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#480828 - Fri Jul 03 2009 05:49 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Enthusiast
Registered: Tue May 26 2009
Posts: 473
Loc: Florida USA
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Quote:
Because it's YOUR job as a quizmaker to make sure your quiz/question is error-free before you submit it. It's not our job as editors to do your work for you.
That's not what I stated. Why have the "report error" on the quizzes themselves, and why have the "error" selection on the question in the Question Quest if all questions are edited either by the author or the editor beforehand based on what you stated in your initial reply? As stated, some get by, but, as many as I see...
Quote:
I doubt that we have quizzes online that have a 'plethora' of errors in them, by the way. The quizzes that went online in the 'early days' (2000, 2001) were not held against the strict guidelines we have today, but should still not contain many spelling errors.
Did I say you had quizzes online that individually have a plethora of errors in them? No, I didn't say that.
Quote:
Different countries have different spacing rules, so what looks wrong to you might be perfectly acceptable in another country. However, if you see an inconsistency, again, please send a correction note! Even if it's a quiz that was written by an editor! If your notes are polite and valid, nobody will 'jump down your throat'. In fact, we appreciate it when members take the time to send a correction note.
Wrong. See, now you're assuming what I experienced didn't happen because an editor wouldn't react that way. An editor, at the end of the day, is a person just like anyone else. They could've had a bad day that day, and they decided to take it out on me 'cause I pointed out an error in their own quiz, or it could be another reason. But making an assumption as that an editor or any other authority on this website (or any website for that matter) wouldn't do such a thing is not reality. I am always civil to everyone 'til they are not civil to me. I like this website, for the time being, I even purchased a Gold Membership, so, I wouldn't say or do anything to jeopardize that; I'll even take a few pushes but not too many. My experience, in the past, is that people protect their brethren; which is admirable but solves nothing. So, based on my own experience I find reporting such infractions to be pointless, and so I don't. I just let it go unless it happens again, then, I save everything, and then report. First times free, though.
Quote:
I'm not talking about very fancy grammar, just the ability to form a grammatical English sentence. If you can't do that and can't find anybody to help you with it, then quizwriting probably is not for you. (Clearly, I am not talking about *you* personally in this case, as - purely looking at your forum posts - your sentences look grammatical to me!)
Looks can be deceiving. I've been told I'm a great speller but bad at sentence structure and tenses. Way before being on this website. Why I only have the one quiz. The second one I did; well, if you're able to read the back and forth on that one (if possible, though I deleted it) it's quite entertaining.
Quote:
That is basically already what we do. We aren't editors in the way that magazines have editors, ie. we don't re-write quizzes for authors. We are just well informed about the Funtrivia guidelines and make sure that what goes online is suitable for this website and has the quality that we require.
So, being called an Editor is basically misleading? I mean, I know my grammar isn't perfect. I know my only good side in grammar is spelling, and I lack in other venues (such as I mentioned above) but when I initially created my quiz my thought was, "Well, they're an editor, so, they'll help me. That's what they do: they edit." And for my first quiz, that's exactly what happened. They helped me, and when they saw that I wasn't able to fix certain things, they helped me with that, too. (at least I think they did) Which made me confident enough to create a second quiz but then all that confidence went away when apparently I didn't read all the rules for that particular section (my fault, not blaming them) but when I started to rewrite it, apparently I wasn't rewriting it up to that particular editors standards. When that editor suggested I do something it ceased being a suggestion and became an order, or the quiz I created wouldn't be accepted. It got to the point where the quiz was no longer my quiz, it was their quiz. It was nothing of what I wanted it to be. Now, I realize that initially that was my fault but when it came to the point where the suggestions that editor gave weren't actually suggestions (because every time I submitted it, they told me to change what they suggested I change which made it not a suggestion), and by the time they pawned me off to another editor, I gave up. I put no fault on the second editor. What I did by deleting it is all on me, and was my choice but...
-Nam
Edited by nammage (Fri Jul 03 2009 05:52 AM)
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I'm on the road less traveled...
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#480829 - Fri Jul 03 2009 06:16 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
Posts: 1615
Loc: London, England
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Quote:
Why have the "report error" on the quizzes themselves, and why have the "error" selection on the question in the Question Quest
Because the site would be considerably less effective if this was not the case. Editors do not, as a rule, fact-check; that is not our role. Sometimes we are editing quizzes or questions on topics about which we know very little. We have to assume that the question writers have done a little research themselves but sometimes their questions and/or answers contain factual inaccuracies that need addressing. Other players may have the knowledge to point these out and that is what the correction note system is primarily there for.
And despite your experience with it, it is worth sending notes on any errors you see, which is the point that Leau was making. We want the site to be as accurate as is possible and therefore appreciate when errors on it are highlighted so that action can be taken.
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#480830 - Fri Jul 03 2009 06:27 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Forum Champion
Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
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Quote:
Quote:
Because it's YOUR job as a quizmaker to make sure your quiz/question is error-free before you submit it. It's not our job as editors to do your work for you.
That's not what I stated. Why have the "report error" on the quizzes themselves, and why have the "error" selection on the question in the Question Quest if all questions are edited either by the author or the editor beforehand based on what you stated in your initial reply? As stated, some get by, but, as many as I see...
Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were talking about the bit of text that encourages you to make sure your quiz/question is error-free before you submit it. The reason for the error reporting facility is that we're all human and errors do slip by. Furthermore, editors do not know everything about every possible topic, so we often have to trust the author of a quiz to get their facts right. If those facts do happen to be incorrect, players with more knowledge about the topic can use the correction notes to bring this to our attention.
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Quote:
I doubt that we have quizzes online that have a 'plethora' of errors in them, by the way. The quizzes that went online in the 'early days' (2000, 2001) were not held against the strict guidelines we have today, but should still not contain many spelling errors.
Did I say you had quizzes online that individually have a plethora of errors in them? No, I didn't say that.
You said that you could understand one or two errors slipping by an editor and not a plethora of them. As a result, I assumed that you were talking about single quizzes with loads of errors. Because, with the thousands of quizzes online, of course there are going to be errors if one or two slip by the editors every time.
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Quote:
Different countries have different spacing rules, so what looks wrong to you might be perfectly acceptable in another country. However, if you see an inconsistency, again, please send a correction note! Even if it's a quiz that was written by an editor! If your notes are polite and valid, nobody will 'jump down your throat'. In fact, we appreciate it when members take the time to send a correction note.
Wrong. See, now you're assuming what I experienced didn't happen because an editor wouldn't react that way. An editor, at the end of the day, is a person just like anyone else. They could've had a bad day that day, and they decided to take it out on me 'cause I pointed out an error in their own quiz, or it could be another reason.
Wrong. I am only me, I am not the rest of the editors, so I have no idea what note you sent and who reacted to it in which way as it didn't involve me. Whether you were rude, whether the editor was rude, whether it was a misunderstanding from either or both sides, I don't know (I do know, though, that there are two sides to every story). I was merely encouraging you to keep on sending correction notes, even when it's an editor's quiz.
Quote:
So, being called an Editor is basically misleading? I mean, I know my grammar isn't perfect. I know my only good side in grammar is spelling, and I lack in other venues (such as I mentioned above) but when I initially created my quiz my thought was, "Well, they're an editor, so, they'll help me. That's what they do: they edit." And for my first quiz, that's exactly what happened. They helped me, and when they saw that I wasn't able to fix certain things, they helped me with that, too. (at least I think they did) Which made me confident enough to create a second quiz but then all that confidence went away when apparently I didn't read all the rules for that particular section (my fault, not blaming them) but when I started to rewrite it, apparently I wasn't rewriting it up to that particular editors standards. When that editor suggested I do something it ceased being a suggestion and became an order, or the quiz I created wouldn't be accepted. It got to the point where the quiz was no longer my quiz, it was their quiz. It was nothing of what I wanted it to be. Now, I realize that initially that was my fault but when it came to the point where the suggestions that editor gave weren't actually suggestions (because every time I submitted it, they told me to change what they suggested I change which made it not a suggestion), and by the time they pawned me off to another editor, I gave up. I put no fault on the second editor. What I did by deleting it is all on me, and was my choice but...
If you take the word 'editor' to mean that we fix everything for you and re-write your quiz to get it up to the FT standards, then yes, the word is misleading. But your assumption about editors being there to help you is entirely correct. We realise that not everybody knows the ins-and-outs of Funtrivia when they create a quiz, so we're here to help quizmakers figure things out. (As I said before, though, we're not here to teach them English, apart from the odd tip here and there). However, in the end, the quiz has to meet the Funtrivia guidelines and standards, so even though it IS your quiz, you can't simply ignore the advice you get from the editors and require your quiz to go online when it doesn't meet the FT guidelines.
_________________________
The cost of living has not affected its popularity - Loesje
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#480835 - Sat Jul 04 2009 03:35 PM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Sat Aug 05 2006
Posts: 1574
Loc: Grayslake
Illinois USA
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Any chance of getting the Categories displayed in the individual players question rating lists?
Happy Trivia!
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Who Am I? Editor since June 17, 2008 - June 30, 2013
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#480836 - Sat Jul 04 2009 06:19 PM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 5976
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia
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I recently submitted a question that was accepted, and is now waiting to be used. But then I made a mistake. When I saw that I had room to post another question, I went to the Word document where I have written out the questions I am waiting to submit, and checked out the next question below the line I drew to show where the next question was. But, since I forgot to move the line (I know, I'm an idiot!), I was looking at the same question. Deciding I could make it more interesting before submission, I did so, and the revised (and, I think, better) question that really duplicates a previously-submitted question is in my 'to be reviewed' pile. How can I either remove this question, or (better) arrange to have it used INSTEAD OF the previously-accepted one? I don't really want the superior question to be rejected because of duplication!
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(Editor in Humanities, Religion, Literature and For Children)
That's all, folks!
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#480837 - Sat Jul 04 2009 09:59 PM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
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Quote:
I've also simplified the "New Question" game to combine minor and major errors into one thing. You can submit feedback on spelling, correctness, etc all in one place now.
This is a great innovation, thanks Terry! 
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#480838 - Sat Jul 04 2009 10:00 PM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Prolific
Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
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Quote:
Any chance of getting the Categories displayed in the individual players question rating lists?
And I second this motion too!
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#480840 - Wed Jul 08 2009 09:22 AM
Re: New Question Quest rejections
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Enthusiast
Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
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Seconding Demurechcky's comments! I had no idea this was a "new" new feature - much appreciated.
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