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#486798 - Sun Jul 26 2009 06:47 PM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 8760
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:

Interesting info - loads of it - is fine as long as it IS interesting to the mass membership.




But who's to judge what in a quiz is entertaining or not in this sense? When I write my info, I don't subconsciously think "this is what people want to read". I write quizzes for my own enjoyment and I'm glad to see others getting joy from it too. I think if we were to write for 'the audience', there would be a ton more quizzes on the Jonas Brothers, Hannah Montana, and The Hills than we'd be willing to take on. TV and For Children quizzes on these subjects are still getting more plays than our best General quizzes.

I think our broad topics and the wealth of information, however long and however on-the-point, is a much more valuable asset to the site than just 'what the majority wants to see'. Some QMs are excellent in their interesting info. It's one of the major criteria I look for when I give an EC and it's one of the more important points I note to QMs in the queue.

Of course, we're not looking for a novel of interesting info, but sensibly written, a good paragraph of info or two may just be the best option.
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#486799 - Sun Jul 26 2009 07:49 PM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
fredsixties Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 01 2008
Posts: 349
Loc: Staten Island
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I will usually write a paragraph of somewhere between five and ten sentences depending on what the subject matter is and how much information is available. I think that many people don't want to read more than that and if they learn a fact that is new to them, my mission is accomplished.

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#486800 - Sun Jul 26 2009 07:56 PM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
bloomsby Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 4095
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Posting as a player (not as an editor) I'd say I much prefer lengthy I.I. to long, shaggy-dog questions, some of which are 5-10 lines long ...

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#486801 - Sun Jul 26 2009 10:14 PM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
Buddy1 Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 15 2008
Posts: 871
Loc: Arkansas USA
I say short amounts and not long. I hardly read the interesting information, even if it's a topic I greatly enjoy, such as Harry Potter. I wouldn't mind making it optional (although I doubt that's going to happen).

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#486802 - Mon Jul 27 2009 02:10 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
Snowman Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
Posts: 1615
Loc: London, England
I often use the questions simply as an excuse to write the interesting info to be honest, so the II is often quite long on mine. I'd like to think that people will read it as it is only there because I genuinely think it is interesting.

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#486803 - Mon Jul 27 2009 05:54 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
I like to read the II whether it's one sentence or several paragraphs, although it is sometimes a bit disappointing to have an interesting or obscure question with very little II to back it up.

My main beef is paragraphing: II that is one long indigestible lump is just so difficult to follow.

There are several things that would alleviate this problem:
- authors ensuring that lengthy II sections are cut into "bite-sized chunks" (as mentioned previously in this thread);
- reformatting so that putting a double space between sentences is allowed;
- reformatting to ensure that paragraphing is preserved when quiz questions are used in daily/hourly games.
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#486804 - Mon Jul 27 2009 07:49 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
ing Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia  
Quote:

My main beef is paragraphing: II that is one long indigestible lump is just so difficult to follow.

There are several things that would alleviate this problem:
- authors ensuring that lengthy II sections are cut into "bite-sized chunks" (as mentioned previously in this thread);
- reformatting so that putting a double space between sentences is allowed;
- reformatting to ensure that paragraphing is preserved when quiz questions are used in daily/hourly games.




Putting my designer hat on, I completely agree with paragrahps being a problem. The alarming trend I see is towards no line spacing between paras, and that drives me nuts!

I don't, however, think that double spaces after full-stops/periods are necessary or even desirable. They add nothing to comprehension, and would only make one more area for inconstistency to creep in as far as I am concerned.

The simplest way to make any slab of test more readable is to put it into a serif font. This is 'old-school' graphic design - Times {New} Roman and Garamond etc are used in printing most books for a reason; sans serif fonts are good for short pieces of info - headlines, titles etc - but in large chunks are just harder to read. I know I'm a font-nerd, but it just seems like basic common sense to me - if something is known to make reading/comprehension easier, why wouldn't you use it? There is a school of thought that what applies on the 'printed' page does not apply 'on-screen' - this, in my opinion and to put it mildly - is malarky.

As to II - I too tend to write a lot, and agree that it's better to have it there for those who want it, as those who don't simply won't read it. I must admit I do skip a lot of it myself when playing, but that's not the point! I also agree that in many instances the II 'completes' the question, especially in the more obscure areas, or in the more 'jokey' quizzes. 'Tis my belief that writing good II is as important a particular skill of the good FT Author as writing interesting questions (and I also don't like overly-long questions, but have trouble not writing them myself sometimes...), and coming up with alternative answers.

Oh yes, and there's nothing worse than patronising II (unless it's patronising questions, but we won't go there!) as has been mentioned above. Sure you expect dates for people, films, books, songs etc - which is 'common' knowledge in that anyone can Google it - but stuff that comes across as the writer assuming no-one could possibly know as much as they do about the subject, and therefore know nothing at all, just has me reaching for the 'poor' rating button.

Something I've noticed in the QQ, BTW, is that there is a lot of 'assumed' knowledge being, well, assumed! To me it's much more important in a deliberately designed 'stand-alone' question to expand abbreviations/acronyms, mention countries of origin (for people, TV shows, sports clubs, hobby groups, whatever) than it is in full-length quizzes which in most cases will have some sort of context to fall back on. The advent of the hourly/daily games meant that all Qs had to be ready to stand alone, but there are ways of doing that without having to have endless repetitions of the same info - visible titles and categories being the obvious one - which to me can ruin a good quiz. But when writing a specifically stand-alone question, everything that might be subject to confusion or mis-interpretation must be explained. That's why I find myself - feeling like quite a nong sometimes - writing corrections like "What's the BBC?" or "Where is Sydney?"

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#486805 - Mon Jul 27 2009 07:55 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
delboy22 Offline
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ing - Sydney works for the BBC - he can't reply at the moment he's busy screenwriting a documentary on Australia hehehe
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#486806 - Mon Jul 27 2009 08:29 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
highfells Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
Quote:

The simplest way to make any slab of test more readable is to put it into a serif font. This is 'old-school' graphic design - Times {New} Roman and Garamond etc are used in printing most books for a reason; sans serif fonts are good for short pieces of info - headlines, titles etc - but in large chunks are just harder to read. I know I'm a font-nerd, but it just seems like basic common sense to me - if something is known to make reading/comprehension easier, why wouldn't you use it? There is a school of thought that what applies on the 'printed' page does not apply 'on-screen' - this, in my opinion and to put it mildly - is malarky.





With the greatest respect to your experience, ing, it's not malarky. I am one of those people for whom the font and the medium actually do make a difference: I find that sans serif fonts are easier on the eye on the computer screen. Times New Roman in the printed medium I can put up with; it's not a font of which I am particularly fond, but that's just my personal preference, I suppose.
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#486807 - Mon Jul 27 2009 08:53 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
ing Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia  
Like I say highfells, just my opinion, and for me it's always easier to read serif fonts. Of course it also depends on the type of monitor you use and it's resolution etc. I've recently changed to an LCD screen and I notice the difference between sans serif and serif even more now. From what you say, though, it sounds as if you prefer sans serif in printed matter, too? In which case the actual difference may not be so much in the medium but in something to do with your vision vs mine...and I'm not for a second saying that you really read serif type more easily than sans but you just don't notice it (I'm not quite that arrogant! ), just that the way I've always heard it is that the majority of people find serif fonts easier to read, and as I fall into that group, that's what I go with!

I also notice as I type this that I am doing so in a serif font, but it will come up on the board in a sans serif font. I've always wondered why it's set up this way...

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#486808 - Mon Jul 27 2009 09:06 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
As you say, ing, when it comes to fonts it's all down to personal preference...

I think my aversion to TNR stems from the old days before keyboards when folks used typewriters - I used to think that Times looked messy.

As for the screen vs print thing - I have a larger font than the default set up on my computer (the eyes aren't as keen as they used to be, y'know!), and serif fonts just don't look right to me when enlarged on screen.
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#486809 - Mon Jul 27 2009 09:48 AM Re: Add'l info on quizzes
ing Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 30 2005
Posts: 1636
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia  
Mm, yes Times did look messy when typewritten, but then just about every font did!

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