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#519806 - Mon Jun 28 2010 01:26 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
minkpenny Offline
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Registered: Fri Feb 28 2003
Posts: 931
Loc: Buenos Aires
Argentina    ...
Quote:

I am figuring Argentina is the team to beat at the moment...they stomped the Mexican team.




Yes, but now we have to play against Germany... that'll be an interesting game, just like in 2006. I hope the result is a different one this year, though!
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#519807 - Mon Jun 28 2010 01:53 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
Copago Offline
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Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia

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#519808 - Mon Jun 28 2010 03:57 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
triviapaul Offline
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Registered: Thu May 22 2008
Posts: 998
Loc: Delft<br>The Netherlands
Quote:

haha

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Yd4xq.png" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/Yd4xq.png</a>




Hilarious
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#519809 - Mon Jun 28 2010 04:05 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
srini701 Offline
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Registered: Wed Jan 04 2006
Posts: 11527
Loc: Hyderabad, India
Quote:

haha

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Yd4xq.png" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/Yd4xq.png</a>




LOL

Think England could have made a match of it if that second goal had been awarded? I still thought Germany was far better than the English and kept ripping the defence apart....
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#519810 - Mon Jun 28 2010 06:47 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
szabs Offline
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Registered: Mon Aug 13 2007
Posts: 14748
Loc: Mijas, Malaga Spain         
That's a good one Copago , oh well Spain still have to play on Tuesday, so we will keep our fingers crossed but my expectations at the moment are not too high, seeing how they have played till now .

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#519811 - Mon Jun 28 2010 03:40 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
LeoDaVinci Offline
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Registered: Fri Mar 23 2001
Posts: 12578
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:

I saw the "no-goal" replay and even if they had given it to them, England still would have lost by 2.




Actually, it might have changed the momentum of the match and the outcome might have been different. However, the reality is that they lost, and they lost badly, so no matter how much you cry over the missed goal, they're still out of the picture.
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#519812 - Mon Jun 28 2010 07:38 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
quogequox Offline
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Registered: Sat Sep 15 2001
Posts: 1050
Loc: Adelaide SA Australia      
Yeah thats the thing about bad calls, they still stand. Dutch are going along under the radar a bit at the moment unfortunatly they have Brazil next, who, Spain v Portugal not withstanding seem the team to beat at the moment. I think Argentinas defence might drack against the Germans, mind you their defence aint great either.
All these goals in the round of 16 amazing, and good, wonder why..oh right Italy's out
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#519813 - Mon Jun 28 2010 07:46 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
gtho4 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 26 1999
Posts: 54484
Loc: Sydney
oz downunder
FIFA accepts squillions for broadcasting rights, let's us watch it, but then won't allow any of that to be used to help the referee. They insist that the World Cup Final referee have the same tools (none) as the referee of a soccer match in some paddock out in whopp-whoop (ditto, none). This is their official position (it can't go on forever):
    Quote:

    FIFA’s position on technology in football by Sepp Blatter
    Thursday 11th March 2010

    At the 124th Annual General meeting of the International Football Association Board (IFAB) in Zurich on 6 March 2010, which, as is the case with every FIFA World Cup™ year, was chaired by myself on behalf of FIFA, the IFAB decided not to implement technology in football. FIFA supports this decision, based on the following points:

    The universality of the game:
    one of the main objectives of FIFA is to protect the universality of the game of association football. This means that the game must be played in the same way no matter where you are in the world. If you are coaching a group of teenagers in any small town around the world, they will be playing with the same rules as the professional players they see on TV. The simplicity and universality of the game of association football is one of the reasons for its success. Men, women, children, amateurs and professionals all play the same game all over the world.

    The human aspect:
    no matter which technology is applied, at the end of the day a decision will have to be taken by a human being. This being the case, why remove the responsibility from the referee to give it to someone else? It is often the case that, even after a slow-motion replay, ten different experts will have ten different opinions on what the decision should have been. Fans love to debate any given incident in a game. It is part of the human nature of our sport. FIFA’s goal is to improve the quality of refereeing, making referees more professional and better prepared, and to assist referees as much as possible. This is also the reason why refereeing experiments (such as with additional referees or the role of the fourth official) will continue to be analysed, to see how referees can be supported.

    The financial aspect:
    the application of modern technologies can be very costly, and therefore not applicable on a global level. Many matches, even at the highest level, are not even televised. For example, we have close to 900 preliminary matches for the FIFA World Cup™, and the same rules need to be applied in all matches of the same competition. The rules need to be the same for all association football matches worldwide. The experiments conducted by companies on technology in football are also expensive. The decision of the IFAB, after careful consideration and examination of studies conducted in recent years, to give a clear answer on technology in football is also positive in this regard as these companies will now not spend significant amounts of money on projects which in the end will not be implemented.

    The extended use of technology:
    the question has already been raised: if the IFAB had approved goal-line technology, what would prevent the approval of technology for other aspects of the game? Every decision in every area of the pitch would soon be questioned. The nature of the game: association football is a dynamic game that cannot be stopped in order to review a decision. If play were to be stopped to take a decision, it would break up the rhythm of the game and possibly deny a team the opportunity to score a goal. It would also not make sense to stop play every two minutes to review a decision, as this would go against the natural dynamism of the game.


http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/president/presidentialcolumn/news/newsid=1179851.html

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#519814 - Mon Jun 28 2010 11:19 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
gtho4 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 26 1999
Posts: 54484
Loc: Sydney
oz downunder
How to deflect criticism, don't allow replays of the incident! This will ensure the crowd are kept in the dark.
    Quote:

    FIFA to ban big-screen replays
    June 28, 2010

    FIFA has reacted to the controversy in the game between Argentina and Mexico - by censoring match action shown on giant screens inside stadiums. On Sunday, replays of Argentina's disputed first goal against Mexico triggered arguments on the pitch as Mexico's players protested when Carlos Tevez was shown as being clearly offside.

    FIFA spokesman Nicolas Maingot said replaying the incident was "a clear mistake." He continued: "This will be corrected and we will have a closer look into that. We will work on this and be a bit more, I would say, tight on this for the games to be played." Maingot said FIFA had yet to receive feedback from match officials about the protests, or a fracas behind the dug-outs as the teams left the field at half-time.

    Jermaine Craig of the South Africa Organising Committee said he had spoken to the broadcasting team about the incident. "The goal was awarded and it happened relatively quickly," he said. "In retrospect, maybe it shouldn't have been shown. It was shown and unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that."

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/803404/ce/uk/?cc=3436&ver=global


Let's start at the top .. now they're after Sepp Blatter, asking for his removal. I second the motion.
    Quote:

    Hiddink challenges FIFA over technology
    By Graham Dunbar

    Former Socceroos coach Guus Hiddink challenged FIFA President Sepp Blatter on Monday to introduce video technology for football or immediately resign, as the fallout spread from two refereeing blunders at the World Cup. But FIFA stood firm in its refusal to be drawn on the controversial issue, and didn't send officials with responsibility for referees to its daily briefing in South Africa, despite the furore over Sunday's blatantly wrong decisions that contributed to the elimination of England and Mexico.

    "Sepp Blatter should announce tomorrow that video replay will be implemented or he needs to resign," said Hiddink, one of the world's most respected coaches.

    The organisation which represents players around the world also demanded that referees be given the most modern tools to do their job. "We can do it, the football world wants it and yet it is still being thwarted. That is unacceptable," said FIFPro spokesman Tijs Tummers.

    Blatter has offered no public comment - not even on his much publicised Twitter feed - since attending both teams' games Sunday, where he witnessed the errors of judgment by two referees and their assistants.

    Television replays immediately showed that England was denied a legitimate goal against Germany when Frank Lampard's shot bounced down from the crossbar and over the goal line. Uruguayan referee Jorge Larrionda waved away the 38th-minute effort, which would have levelled the game at 2-2. Germany went on to win 4-1. Four hours later, Argentina's first goal in a 3-1 win against Mexico was scored by Carlos Tevez from an offside position but was allowed by Italian referee Roberto Rosetti. Mexico players protested to the match officials after seeing replays accidentally replayed on a giant screen inside the stadium seconds later.

    Blatter has repeatedly rejected video technology, arguing it would slow the game down and remove the romance and tradition of the game. As a result, match officials are denied access to images seen within seconds by hundreds of millions of television viewers, and most stadium spectators via replays broadcast on giant screens.

    Technically, the referee in the Mexico-Argentina match would not have been allowed to base his decision on even a glimpse of the footage on the giant screen. "Let it be as it is and let's leave football with errors," Blatter said in 2008 when experiments with goal-line technology and video replay were halted by FIFA's rules panel, the International Football Association Board.

    However, FIFA found a defender in Brazil coach Dunga, on the grounds that all publicity is good for the game. "I would leave it the way it is," Dunga told reporters. "If there is no controversy in football, you wouldn't be there and I wouldn't be here."

    The debate is undoubtedly unwelcome to FIFA which hoped it had dealt with the technology issue in March, when IFAB declined to restart technology experiments. FIFA had no desire to revive the discussion Monday, midway through its showpiece event. Under hostile questioning at a briefing which attracted double the usual number of reporters, spokesman Nicolas Maingot said he was not in a position to discuss decisions by referees or the rules panel. "We obviously will not open any debate," Maingot said. "This is obviously not the place for this."

    FIFPro's Tummers said Rosetti had no choice but to wrongly allow the Argentina goal because he could not be seen to rely on video replays. "You could see the doubt in his eyes. Technology does not undermine the authority of referees, it only helps them," Tummers said.

    That view was shared by the inventor of Hawkeye, a system used in tennis to judge line calls but spurned by FIFA in 2008. "Referees want goal-line technology. It would be there to help them, not to replace them," Paul Hawkins told the British agency PA on Monday. Hawkins believes his system, which uses a number of cameras positioned around the stadium to calculate the ball's position, could have transmitted a message to Larrionda, the Germany-England referee, within a half-second.

    http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1077773


FIFA have also censored the video highlights of the Germany v England match .. go to fifa.com and have a look at it. The (shot at) goal by Lampard is not part of the game's highlights. It never happened.

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#519815 - Tue Jun 29 2010 01:17 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
pyonir Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 25 2009
Posts: 877
Loc: Minnesota USA
Didn't they try installing microchips into the ball at one World Cup? I seem to remember this happening and if the ball had crossed the goal line the microchip would detect it and the goal awarded.

Actually...found some articles that state it was being tested in 2005 and had a possibility of being used in the 2006 Cup. If they are so resistant to video replay, why not something like this at the LEAST.

http://www.i4u.com/article4310.html

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#519816 - Wed Jun 30 2010 05:40 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
triviapaul Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Thu May 22 2008
Posts: 998
Loc: Delft<br>The Netherlands
Blatter and FIFA are as usual completely off the mark.
The question is not whether to implement technology, because the technology is already there for everyone to see. The question is whether the referees are allowed to use this technology for their decision making. What FIFA is doing is taking away the autonomy of referees which they value so much, by forbidding them to use replays, a decision that should be the referee's alone to make.
After Tevez' goal against Mexico you can see the players mobbing referee Rosetti; the goal was shown to be offside on the video screen. Arguably the referee or his assistant saw that (the players certainly did), and you can see him making apologising gestures, as if to say: "sorry guys, it was offside, but I am not allowed to make that decision".
The solution is not to add more regulation, but to scrap that rule that they are not allowed to use replay. It seems so simple, referees can talk to their assistants, the players, even check marks on the pitch to find information on which they can base a decision, why rule out a quick look up at the video screen?
Noone is asking FIFA to install video replay themselves, noone is asking to make it compulsory to use it even when it is there, but when it is there, the referees should have the freedom to use it.

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#519817 - Wed Jun 30 2010 06:08 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
triviapaul Offline
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Registered: Thu May 22 2008
Posts: 998
Loc: Delft<br>The Netherlands
On a sidenote: has anyone seen Martin Hansson yet?
Like his collegues, the referee from Sweden was selected to the 2010 World Cup 2 years ago, yet we haven't seen him on the field once. What stands between then and now was of course the infamous Henry handball against Ireland, a game where he was referee.
Unlike their officials on the pitch, FIFA is basing their decisions on replays. Hypocrisy at its best.
Today Jorge Larrionda (together with the aforementioned Roberto Rosetti) was sent home. He presided over four games in the World Cup so far, a sign that FIFA was pleased with him. His crime: being controversial because he did not see Lampard's goal, something that officially didn't even happen.

In the long run this might be a good thing; the next time a referee needs to make an important decision, he has two options: one, ignore replay, make a wrong decision and be sent home, or two, use replay make the right decision and be sent home. I think in this case a referee will take choice two, at least they won't receive death threats.
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#519818 - Wed Jun 30 2010 09:53 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
Wales UK
Quote:

In the long run this might be a good thing; the next time a referee needs to make an important decision, he has two options: one, ignore replay, make a wrong decision and be sent home, or two, use replay make the right decision and be sent home. I think in this case a referee will take choice two, at least they won't receive death threats.




Quite right!

Martin Hansson has only been the fourth official in matches as far as I am aware.

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#519819 - Wed Jun 30 2010 10:33 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
lady1 Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          


Because it is always good to laugh...
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#519820 - Wed Jun 30 2010 01:04 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
pyonir Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 25 2009
Posts: 877
Loc: Minnesota USA
hahaha, nice find lady1.

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#519821 - Thu Jul 01 2010 01:50 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
papo2228 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Mon Jul 02 2007
Posts: 91
Loc: Buenos Aires Argentina       
Most referees don't come up tp a World Cup expectations.There are some exceptions such as Irmatov, De Bleeckere, Nishimura, Baldassi and Simon.

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#519822 - Thu Jul 01 2010 02:15 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
Wales UK
Baldassi got the red card for Ricardo Costa very badly wrong.

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#519823 - Thu Jul 01 2010 03:37 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
papo2228 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Mon Jul 02 2007
Posts: 91
Loc: Buenos Aires Argentina       
Three cameras took the scene> in the first two you cannot see anything wrong but in the third I clearly saw that Ricardo Costa hit his opponent violently with his elbow, so Baldassi was right.

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#519824 - Thu Jul 01 2010 03:40 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
papo2228 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Mon Jul 02 2007
Posts: 91
Loc: Buenos Aires Argentina       
Martin Hansson is a fourth Assistant in the World Cup.That is why you did nor see him refereeing. Maybe that is a good idea after Titi Henry's hand.

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#519825 - Thu Jul 01 2010 04:25 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
Wales UK
The third camera shot was from very far out, with a dodgy perception of depth. The opponent pretended to have been hit, got back up, and then went back down again. Hardly the actions of someone who has been elbowed with the force of a battering ram. He also held a different part of his face to the area which may have been hit had there been connection. I am not fussed on how quickly South American referees give out red cards; of 14 red cards so far, 7! are from South American refs.

Martin Hansson has been sent home.


Edited by jonnowales (Thu Jul 01 2010 04:35 PM)

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#519826 - Thu Jul 01 2010 09:22 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
quogequox Offline
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Registered: Sat Sep 15 2001
Posts: 1050
Loc: Adelaide SA Australia      
I think we can give the referees a certain amount of leeway in their calls given that cheating has become an acceptable part of the sport. Diving I mean of course, it is the single biggest blight on the came and for some reason its totally acceptable to the point even of players falling down for no reason at all. You pass your man, thats one defender less to deal with but rather than continue in the slight touch produces a fall. The game stops everyone takes up a defencive position and we start all over. Fifa should use video replays to card players who dive, after the game, whenever. When Italy or Portugal (or many/any other teams)suddenly face a knockout game with half a dozen first starters out things might change.
FIFA might even have a duty of care to these players writhing on the ground, to get them off and to medical assistance, "it looked pretty bad you better have the rest of the game off".
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#519827 - Fri Jul 02 2010 04:58 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
lady1 Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Wed Jun 07 2006
Posts: 20697
Loc: Gauteng South Africa          
South Africa is going all out to support Ghana tonight - as the last African team left in the WC.
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#519828 - Fri Jul 02 2010 10:19 AM Re: 2010 World Cup
quogequox Offline
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Registered: Sat Sep 15 2001
Posts: 1050
Loc: Adelaide SA Australia      
Let me just add WOOOOHOOO!!
Netherlands 2 Brazil 1
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#519829 - Fri Jul 02 2010 01:39 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
papo2228 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Mon Jul 02 2007
Posts: 91
Loc: Buenos Aires Argentina       
This is an excellent way to reason because diving into the pool has become a common practice. When a player is very near an opponent he drops on the pitch as if he were mortally wounded and the referees must cope with this all through the game. jonnowales has never been a referee and I have been a FIFA referee myself before I retired in 1967.

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#519830 - Fri Jul 02 2010 03:38 PM Re: 2010 World Cup
jonnowales Offline
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Registered: Mon Oct 30 2006
Posts: 1529
Loc: Swansea
Wales UK
Why does it matter whether I have refereed or not? (I referee rugby union by the way, hopefully one day at the top level ). Some of the referees have made awful calls in this tournament and one wonders how on Earth they are FIFA listed. Congrats on the FIFA listing by the way, it must have been a great experience!

Great match between Ghana and Uruguay today. Just a shame that Ghana have been eliminated by a form of cheating that is worse than any dive.

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