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#609233 - Sun Mar 27 2011 12:10 PM How is it that
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
an editor can have a quiz placed online with a format which is expressly "forbidden" in the quiz writing guidelines for the site?

I'm not getting at the particular editor personally, but surely editors MUST be seen to be following the rules and guidelines imposed on everyone else. So many times debates centre on the "them and us" thing regarding editorial decisions, and this makes a mockery of the rules of the site. What's the point of hammering home the point "check the guidelines" over and over, if an editor can just ignore them?
And no, it isn't an old quiz, or one in brainteasers or any of the other "excusey points" people always seem to make when a quiz or question's validity is called into doubt. It is recent and is it most definitely expressly stated in the quiz authoring guidelines that this specific format is not suitable.
Or of course, the guidelines could be edited to remove the bit where this type of quiz is disallowed, if they are in fact now allowable.

I must point out that I would be making this post if ANY player had had this particular quiz go online, but the fact that it is an editors quiz just seemed to me to make it more important to ask for clarification of how, and to whom, the site quidelines apply. I, along with many other people, put hours and hours of time and effort into writing quizzes, voluntarily, because I care about FT and want to help keep it the excellent site it is, and the high standard of quizwriting now required is part and parcel of that. I just want to know that the rules are applied evenly to all authors.
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#609257 - Sun Mar 27 2011 12:43 PM Re: How is it that
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 5433
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I put a lot of work into writing that quiz I believe you refer to. There are ten questions with plenty of extra information, covering a range of topics. Nevertheless, I was prepared to have it rejected because all the answers were the same, and had a plan B ready for using the challenge template had that happened.

Guideline #7 lists, among other things not to do: "Simple Quizzes: : Quizzes that are purposely designed to be extremely simple are not allowed. This includes quizzes where all of the answers are extremely obvious, quizzes that have been deliberately written as an easy 100 points, and quizzes where all questions have the same answer."

I think it is there to prevent the writing of extremely simple quizzes that have no interest, so I spent most of the day finding questions that COULD have had any of the other options as answers, but didn't. It seemed to me a fair use of the Challenge title. Nevertheless, I would have been quite prepared to go along with a differing judgment from the editor of the category.
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#609292 - Sun Mar 27 2011 01:30 PM Re: How is it that
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
So we await the editor who put it online then, to see how come. Fair enough. I know it's a rare thing for an editor to put their own quiz online and you edit elsewhere LT, so I never thought you "dunnit" so to speak. I just want to know how come it was allowed when the guidelines clearly say it's one of the things not to do.
It's not about the actual quiz itself (other than its format) - I enjoyed playing it and could see how much work went into it; it's the application of the guidelines I would like clarified smile
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#609294 - Sun Mar 27 2011 01:33 PM Re: How is it that
flopsymopsy Online   content

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The guidelines need a bit of editing here and there, and this is a good example of where including the word "normally" would save a lot of grief. If appropriate, editors could then waive the requirement quite legitimately and no one need be upset. smile
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#609386 - Sun Mar 27 2011 09:22 PM Re: How is it that
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14904
Loc: Western Canada
I've been out of town all day, haven't seen the quiz in question, don't know anything about it.

However, I can say that as an editor I am perfectly willing to put a quiz online which does not follow guidelines, if in my opinion it is a high quality quiz anyway, and where ignoring guidelines will not lead to the sort of problems they were put in place to prevent. Unusual quizzes have to be judged on a case by case basis.

Authors who like to push the envelope, in my categories, will be used to notes from me which read something like "Normally we don't allow ______________ because of ______________, but in the case of Qu 1 I will allow it because of ____________. In Qu 7, it won't work, though, because of _________________. In future, if you want to continue doing this, I'll ask that you ______________".

I'm willing to stand behind any decisions I make to waive rules. Another editor may make a different decision - we are not a monolith, though we attempt to have some rough consistency.

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#609412 - Sun Mar 27 2011 10:44 PM Re: How is it that
Nightmare Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
Quote:
So we await the editor who put it online then, to see how come.

Sounds a little too demanding for me. The Quiz Guidelines are for all authors, whether they claim to have a Masters Degree, are 13 years old, are an editor, or whoever else they might be.

Quote:
I must point out that I would be making this post if ANY player had had this particular quiz go online, but the fact that it is an editors quiz just seemed to me to make it more important to ask for clarification of how, and to whom, the site quidelines apply.

You did not identify the quiz in question. If this quiz was the "Babe Ruth" quiz, I assure you that it met all the Quiz Guidelines or I would not have placed it online. The fact that the quiz was created by an editor had no bearing with me whatsoever. I either fix a quiz for an author or reject it. Status has no bearing or perks with me.

It is important that you realize that this quiz did not meet the typical 'simplistic' creation of some quizzes that you're trying to categorize in a lump, i.e., When does the Sun appear?, How many shoe/s does a person wear on one foot?, What official job did President Reagan have?, etc.

This particular quiz was chocked full of unplagiarized, educational material for all levels of not just baseball fans, but sports fans alike, and not just for the USA players.

I knew the quiz would be an 'easy' play and considered placing it into the "Sports for Kids" category. However, due to the abundance and quality of interesting information in the quiz, I felt the quiz would lose its own intent to place it in that category. It was a well researched and well written quiz, no matter who wrote it, and was placed online accordingly within the Quiz Guidelines. I have no second-guessing of the handling of this quiz whatsoever.
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#609425 - Mon Mar 28 2011 12:29 AM Re: How is it that
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
So a quiz is allowable at the discretion of the/an editor in the category where it goes online, with the decision resting solely with that editor regardless of what the actual site quiz guidelines may or may not say, with the guidelines being open to the interpretation of each editor in their own way, on a quiz by quiz basis. I think that answered my question. Thank you all for your input.
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#609481 - Mon Mar 28 2011 06:35 AM Re: How is it that
Snowman Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
Posts: 1613
Loc: London England UK            
I think it's important to point out that the guidelines do what the word suggests - provide a guide. They are not absolute but they do cover the vast majority of cases. You need to construct a very good quiz for an editor to bypass a guideline that would normally prevent it from being placed online and it's probably a good idea to discuss it with an editor in advance of creation, to avoid wasting time and energy on putting it together. But it can be done smile

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#609505 - Mon Mar 28 2011 08:38 AM Re: How is it that
Nightmare Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
Quote:
So a quiz is allowable at the discretion of the/an editor in the category where it goes online, with the decision resting solely with that editor regardless of what the actual site quiz guidelines may or may not say, with the guidelines being open to the interpretation of each editor in their own way, on a quiz by quiz basis. I think that answered my question.


My explanation did answer your question, but your pre-determined interpretation of what I explained was wrong. The quiz met the Quiz Guidelines, period. If you have any further questions, feel free to message me.
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#609522 - Mon Mar 28 2011 11:02 AM Re: How is it that
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 7993
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quizzes are placed online at the discretion of the editor and there are cases where the guidelines are broken provided the editor sees that there is reason to place it online in that way. As rare as that may be, of course.
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#609533 - Mon Mar 28 2011 11:23 AM Re: How is it that
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
Originally Posted By: kyleisalive
Quizzes are placed online at the discretion of the editor and there are cases where the guidelines are broken provided the editor sees that there is reason to place it online in that way. As rare as that may be, of course.


Thank you Kyle, that was all I wanted to know smile
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#609536 - Mon Mar 28 2011 11:33 AM Re: How is it that
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 7993
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Not a problem.

I do want to stress that these are very rare exceptions. The guidelines are obviously there for a reason and we do our best to try and enforce them. There is a line of subjectivity, though, and clearly Nightmare thought that despite the easiness of the quiz it was able to stand on its feet to go online (I would've taken the same course of action). The fact that L_T is an editor has nothing to do with the fact that an exception was made.

I will clarify that by discretion, I'm referring to these exceptions. An editor will likely never refuse to place a quiz online that completely follows the guidelines.

I thought the quiz was a clever idea, and being one who knows absolutely nothing about baseball, I thought it was a welcome concept. laugh

If there are hazy instances like these where the quiz still follows most guidelines but there's one 'issue', it will never hurt to ask the editor(s) of said category. smile


Edited by kyleisalive (Mon Mar 28 2011 12:05 PM)
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