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#612688 - Wed Apr 06 2011 09:15 AM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
LadyCaitriona Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 08 2001
Posts: 5985
Loc: Ottawa
Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: fredsixties
I guess being condescending and sarcastic will get you everywhere in these forums. I hope you are all enjoying entertaining yourselves. Obviously there is no room for disagreement here. I am done.


There certainly has been, and always will be, room for disagreement in these forums. But you can't expect to make a statement backed only with "Because!" and have everyone agree with you.

And obviously you aren't familiar with the concept of reductio ad absurdum. There's nothing condescending or sarcastic about it.
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#612736 - Wed Apr 06 2011 11:40 AM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
kyleisalive Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 7993
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:
The solution has always been to submit more questions/quizzes in the category to which you object that can then be used to dilute the questions you object to.


I completely agree. Rich and Fred (and others), if you're still reading this, would it be a lost cause if more were written? We've already stated that writing more would dilute the pool we already have, but would that be a satisfying solution?

I don't see how it helps a cause to go out of the way to poorly rank language quizzes, especially since they've been online for eons and probably have hundreds of ratings to offset the balance.

I do appreciate the elaboration, Fred, but, other than question and answer length, there's little else to take back to Language authors for suggestions. Unfortunately, there's not really a switch to flick off for these questions. LMB and Nightmare are taking the circumstances to an extreme, but the editors do feel that this is a rather tall order because removing an entire subset of questions from a large chunk of FunTrivia isn't completely feasible.

If, like you say, it's "a matter of question placement", what are you really suggesting? That they move from one game to another or that they just be removed from the games?



The last people that need to be hurt here are the authors, though. What makes it right when you take a quiz, tell them it's very poor, and suggest that their quizzes be moved, shifted, or removed? What can they do? Most of the quizzes on there are archived after their first six months anyways. Even if this convinced them to take the quizzes down, they can't touch them.
Besides, all of the hourlies and dailies are cached- the authors can't get near them. Only Terry can restore the cache; authors can't, editors can't, even after corrections are made. In other words, please stop hassling the authors. We get enough negative comments from people who aren't serious about quizzes...no one likes to be criticized for their entire quizzes with comments like "I don't like this." Why say anything at all unless you're trying to make a point to them specifically?



Quote:
After a wonderful day vacationing in Mexico, you develop a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge (diarrhea and vomiting). Which of these activities do you regret the least?


I'd assume the one mentioning 'agua mineral' (Mineral Water) because there won't be parasites in it. The reason I see this as valid trivia is because, like with Mind Melt and other games, part of the point is to be able to pick out the correct answer using whatever you have at your disposal. Knowing a few keywords in other languages (sure, we can't know them all) will likely be all you need.

---------------

Quote:
That sounds like a great plan. I personally don't care for Video. Let's see what we have so far.


Nightmare, Video Games questions have been omitted from almost all dailies/hourlies for several years. It's part of why I don't play the Global Challenge.


Edited by kyleisalive (Wed Apr 06 2011 11:41 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#612790 - Wed Apr 06 2011 02:22 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
Nightmare Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
Doggonit Kyle. Ok, the new revision is back up to 784,010 questions, with 784,008 that we still need to get rid of.
What is the prize going to be for the two authors of the two questions left? A new car? Free GM for one day? How about a box of brand new pencils, with erasers? smile
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#612811 - Wed Apr 06 2011 03:31 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14904
Loc: Western Canada
Wait a minute - no room for disagreement? But that's what happening here - people are disagreeing with you. If your response to being disagreed with is to stop talking, that's not the fault of those to whom you are speaking. Disagreement works both ways - if you disagree, you must be prepared to be disagreed with.

And, no, I don't think there is any sarcasm going on here, or very little. You are proposing taking out questions that other people enjoy, because you don't like them and they take a long time. So, others, quite reasonably, have suggested removing questions that they don't like which also take a long time. What's sarcastic about that?

The question has been asked several times here, but it's not getting answered - What is it about specifically Language questions that makes them "not trivia" that doesn't also apply to almost everything else onsite?

Today's Team Heroes was on Math. I could answer almost all of the questions, but had to work them out in my head - I can't just know the answer by looking. By the argument that is being used here, I should be asking that Math questions not be allowed in the hourlies. Why is it reasonable for you to ask for Language questions to be removed, but not reasonable for me to ask the same for Math?

I certainly see that both of you feel frustrated and angry, but what I don't see is exactly what you expected to happen here. Were all the people who like having Language questions allowed in the games supposed to say "Oh, that's OK, we'll take them out because you asked"? When you ask other people to make changes to a system that they feel is working well, you can't really be surprised and angry if they don't jump to it, especially when you are unwilling to give a clear argument.

You're not the only ones feeling frustrated and angry. You brought the issue up, but are refusing to discuss it. When people disagreed with you, you offered no counterarguments, but are instead playing the victims, as if you have not been allowed to make your case.

You've had plenty of opportunity to present your argument, and to defend it. You are not a victim just because other people were not convinced.

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#612814 - Wed Apr 06 2011 03:37 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
George95 Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Sat Apr 24 2010
Posts: 9891
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: Nightmare
What is the prize going to be for the two authors of the two questions left? A new car? Free GM for one day? How about a box of brand new pencils, with erasers? smile


The ability to write more questions. wink

I've got no problems with foreign language questions, sure I'm probably going to get them wrong but I'll learn what cat is and what dog, and I might be able to piece it together in the future.

Today, the Team Heroes is Math. Once you leave school, many people aren't going to factor and divide polynomials, nor they will need to figure out the properties of triangles. When it was Authors a couple of weeks ago, I hadn't read any of the books in question, nor had I heard of any of them. Does that mean that the entire Literature section should be trashed? Of course not. There are some bookworms who've heard of them all and are having fun. Everyone's got their strong suit, their strength, as well as their weaknesses. Sometimes, it's one of those days. There's always tomorrow and it's FUN Trivia. Remember

Originally Posted By: Nightmare
Your quiz score is not important. What you learned from the quiz is!


I rest my case.

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#612823 - Wed Apr 06 2011 04:00 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
dippo Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 735
Loc: London
England UK         
I think there are two different types of language questions on the site. I have no problem whatsoever with questions which relate to Romance or Germanic languages; many of these are not just a case of guessing the words, but also of identifying Greek or Latin roots. That knowledge can actually be applied elsewhere.

I would question the value of a question which seems to occur all too frequently; I can't remember how to say someone has won first prize in a table tennis tournament in Bengali. Because there is no commonality between that language and English, the language of this site, there is no benefit involved in learning that particular phrase - even if you travel to the area, are you likely to talk about table tennis competitions? There are some questions on Chinese greetings, but at least these relate to phrases that might be useful. I always think it courteous to at least be able to say please and thank you in countries I am visiting, but I am not convinced of the need to know the Russian for light blue (a question I had today).

Of course, the quizzes are not categorized according to the 'usefulness' of the knowledge imparted, so I guess it would not be possible to filter them in a way to solve this; language questions are either in or out. On balance, I would prefer them to remain. Probably the only thing that could be done to improve the language content would be to put in a cut off date to use only the more recent quizzes, as it's possible that the current editing standards would not allow some of the more obscure questions.

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#612849 - Wed Apr 06 2011 04:59 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
Rowena8482 Offline
Prolific

Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
This is why the New Question game was started, with the Question Quest - to get questions which are specifically written "short and snappy" for the timed games. Every other question on the site (which must be the majority, since the QQ has been running for a lot less time than the site has) were written to be part of their whole integrated quiz. Authors already have to acknowledge that the questions must stand alone, and be able to be taken out of context so they can be used in the hourlies, and it is a careful balancing act to get it right, so that the quiz as a whole flows, and yet each question stands alone. Older quizzes in particular "suffer" as they were not written with hourlies in mind. Won't this whole issue (of long sentence questions/answers), to a certain extent, be a self correcting problem, as more and more Quest questions are submitted, and work through to the hourlies?
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#612982 - Wed Apr 06 2011 11:17 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
trident Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sun Feb 20 2005
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wisconsin USA
Originally Posted By: dippo

I would question the value of a question which seems to occur all too frequently; I can't remember how to say someone has won first prize in a table tennis tournament in Bengali. Because there is no commonality between that language and English, the language of this site, there is no benefit involved in learning that particular phrase - even if you travel to the area, are you likely to talk about table tennis competitions? There are some questions on Chinese greetings, but at least these relate to phrases that might be useful. I always think it courteous to at least be able to say please and thank you in countries I am visiting, but I am not convinced of the need to know the Russian for light blue (a question I had today).


I don't see how just because a language isn't founded in Greek or Latin roots makes it less fit. Just because it's further from one's native tongue doesn't make it irrelevant.

As for "Russian for light blue", it's actually not irrelevant if you take into account the language. In Russian, there is an important distinction between regular blue and light blue that is culturally ingrained.
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#613000 - Thu Apr 07 2011 01:21 AM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
tezza1551 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Feb 05 2008
Posts: 439
Loc: Western Australia
Given that there are no sheep stations at stake on FT (please correct me if I'm wrong - I'd love to be able to run more stock), isn't the aim to learn new things ?
I have absolutely no idea of the "nicknames" of the various states making up the USA - I'm unlikely to ever need to know, and I doubt if i would remember what the correct answer was two seconds after i have completed the quiz. It doesn't make the questions any less valuable. Given that three of my quizzes are based on a language that is not spoken as a first language by anyone, and is spoken fluently by probably less than 1000 people, I would be the last person to object to foreign language questions. You may not ever need to know that in Noongar language, the town of Nornalup means "place of black snakes", but it may just whet your interest to learn a little more about the Noongar people or Western Australia in general.
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#613297 - Thu Apr 07 2011 06:19 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
flopsymopsy Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 4509
Loc: Northampton England UK
Originally Posted By: tezza1551
You may not ever need to know that in Noongar language, the town of Nornalup means "place of black snakes", but it may just whet your interest to learn a little more about the Noongar people or Western Australia in general.


Please write some more of those... I got a question about the meaning of Queanbeyan the other day and as I've been there (well, past it on the way to Canberra as my hosts waved in its general direction saying "that's Queanbeyan over there, we won't visit") I was pleased to be asked what it meant. I had to stick a pin in the options of course as my hosts never referred to it again and I had no idea what it meant but hey, thirty years after a trip to Oz and I'm still fascinated. smile

And you never know when the Bulgarian for "there's a fly in my soup" will come in handy so it's all good.
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#613986 - Sun Apr 10 2011 11:18 AM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
JanIQ Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Thu Jul 09 2009
Posts: 846
Loc: Antwerp
Belgium
Some people might answer to "There's a fly in my soup" with "Enjoy your meal". Cultural differences will always exist.
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#614062 - Sun Apr 10 2011 05:29 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
Tizzabelle Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2507
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
If one commented that "There's a fly in my soup" in Australia you're most likely to be told that "It's a bit of extra protein for you." wink
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#614064 - Sun Apr 10 2011 06:42 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10550
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Love your icon Tizz! Cats' faces can be so expressive.
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#614065 - Sun Apr 10 2011 07:25 PM Re: Foreign language quiz questions
tezza1551 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Feb 05 2008
Posts: 439
Loc: Western Australia
Tizzabelle.. or asked what stroke it's doing !
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