Sypher--my entry does not describe a program. It is the description of an "extravaganza" segment of a circus which can be found in a circus program. It is a program note describing that portion of the show considered to be an extravaganza--which is generally the grand finale.These (in Ringling Brothers et al Circus) are very elaborate production numbers--very glitzy-- featuring the entire circus troupe, all of the animals, special effects, etc. in a parade of sorts.

Sypher--the word "choreography" refers to creating or arranging dances, or to the technique of dance notation. It gives dancers their positions and movements. Dancers can breathe fire---but choreography can't breathe . Karma should get credit only for "choreography".
JoJo should get credit for "scarf" but not "juggling" --a scarf is a scarf, a "juggling scarf" is not a unique entity (and btw, "juggling" is an action word).

But a revolving platform is a thing... so don't I get anything for that bit??/ (Oh Go on !!!!!)

OK...Fair enough CB, but you shouldn't get any points for the word 'Decription'. But I always thought if one part of the entry was invalid, this would make the rest of the entry invalid. So, If you got points for your entry, I would have to give points to Ren for her first two words in her entry.

As for Karma's entry...I must admit that his last word in his entry is slightly wrong to be valid and will be deducted of his points.

As for JJ's entry yesterday...she has already had one word made invalid, just like everyone else. Here entry now stays as it is.

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...and I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues !!

[This message has been edited by Sypher (edited 02-06-2001).]

quote:

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JoJo should get credit for "scarf" but not "juggling" --a scarf is a scarf, a "juggling scarf" is not a unique entity (and btw, "juggling" is an action word).

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When I was searching for "circus equipment" to purchase, I saw a few sites that sell "juggling scarves. You cannot juggle with an ordinary scarf. Juggling scarves are an ideal slow-motion teaching aid for beginners. Fluro nylon with hemmed edges and instructions. Looks great under UV light. They come in a sets of 3 or 12, neon orange, pink, yellow, so the word yellow that I used was invalid, but "juggling scarf" should be valid.

Juggling Scarves

[This message has been edited by JoJo2 (edited 02-06-2001).]

Well defended JJ.....but you were still getting the points for your entry anyway. Any chance for that site so I can get some decent points....hehehehehehe

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...and I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues !!

LOL! Sure thing Sypher!

[This message has been edited by JoJo2 (edited 02-06-2001).]

Come now, Partsdude, "N" isn't hard at all... What about
"NATTERING NABOBS OF NEGATIVISM"????
Oops. Wrong three-ring circus!!!!!
And I don't like this three word limit. In all fairness, my entry on "G" today should have been "Greatest Showon Earth!"
Would that have worked??? LOL!!!!
And what's that I see - Missy Priss Baglady in the number 2 slot?? Is the world coming to an end????? Love you, BL!!!

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Sieze the moment. Remember all those women on the Titanic who waved off the dessert cart.
Erma Bombeck

Love You 2, Mama.......BUT! How did you come up with SAWDUST, following Dude's NETTING? lol Can't wait to hear this explanation!

BL

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Marriage is a three-ring circus: Engagement ring, Wedding ring, and Suffering.

Sypher--I always thought that if one part of the entry was invalid then the whole entry was invalid. But, you haven't been scoring that way--and you didn't score the Mountains game that way either.

"Description" should be a valid part of my entry--I am referring to a description of something which is written in the progam notes of a circus (in this case, the written description of the extravganza--or grande finale-- portion of the show--which appears in the circus program). I am not referring to the actual performance of the "extravaganza" number, nor to any other parts of the written program. My entry is very precise--and just as precise as specifying a Shetland pony (as opposed to other types of ponies) or an elephant trainer (as opposed to other types of trainers). I am specifying a particular portion of the circus program--i.e. that portion of the program that describes the "extravaganza" or grande finale closing parade.

And the first two words of ren's entry should be valid.

I really don't enjoy these games where the topic is so poorly defined and subjective it is one huge grey area. And your scoring seems to be very arbitrary and inconsistent which makes matters worse. I don't want to spend the week arguing with you, so I am bowing out of the game. If it's not fun there's no point playing.
And this game is just too vague and subjective to be fun.

[This message has been edited by chelseabelle (edited 02-06-2001).]

But without you keeping me on my toes....how else would I know when I am wrong....

I wouldn't say it was arguing....more like clearing up a misunderstanding....So I ask you to reconsider your bowing out of this week's game.

Did you know most weeks I have no idea what the subject should be and just pull it out of thin air....these are the weeks when there are so many grey areas. Bear with me....I'm not a clown !! LOL

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...and I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues !!

Mama Mia Mama! Did you have a brain fart!?!?

Sypher, how about--after today--limiting the entries to a single word, or maximum two words. That might cut down on some of the problems and make the game even more challenging.

I think you are very inventive in coming up with topics. I think the rest of the players (except for Sage) are not being helpful enough. They are not challenging enough entries, and they are not, therefore, helping to define the topic and reduce the grey areas--which makes the game easier for everyone, including you. I don't want to be the only player who
seems to be doing this.
I think that the other players have to become more helpful--and active--in defining the topic. That's what the challenges are really about--they aren't just to point out erroneous entries. They help to define the limits of the topic.

Maybe we should eliminate penalties and bonuses for challenges. That might encourage more activity from the players.

CB.....IMHO, it was my understanding (as one of the 'other' players), to "point out erroneous entries" is the idea behind the challenge. As far as not being "helpful" in defining the topic, I was also under the impression that Sypher is the SnakeMaster....he sets the rules and we follow them. Whether there are gray areas or not, it's his ultimate decision whether an entry is valid. This week, for instance, the rule was "No Descriptive terms allowed". When Sypher set that rule, I think we all knew what he meant. We could go on and on ad infinitum about an entry, but I fail to see how that would define the actual limits of the topic. Also, in the other players' minds, there might not be any challenge on a particular entry. In other words, some weeks you step in it, other weeks you don't.

Before the addition of penalties and bonuses, we had just as much fun playing Snake, albeit much more rambling on about a certain entry, sometimes to the point of distraction. Since the challenger doesn't lose anything by challenging an entry, I think it's a fun idea to have the incentive to score an additional 10 points for a VALID challenge...not a challenge that only serves to question Sypher's discretionary power.

BL

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When God decided to invent everything, He took one breath bigger than a circus tent, and everything began.
.....E.E. Cummings

BagLady--challenges have very little to do with questioning Sypher's discretionary authority since they are generally made before he scores an entry. And they do help to define the grey areas in a topic. This week, one of the grey areas was Sypher's rule about descriptive words--and it's still unclear because he is allowing some and not allowing others. If you don't want descriptive words you shouldn't allow any.

Sypher has always asked for our help in sorting out the grey areas--particularly before the game begins. That's one reason he posts the Snake Talk thread before the game begins.

I still think that limiting the entries this week to one word--possibly two--will solve a lot of problems.

And I really don't think that challengers should gain or lose points--the first person able to make a challenge may depend solely on time zones, and that isn't really fair to everyone.

My point with all of this has to do with fairness. It has nothing to do with questioning Sypher's authority or with his ingenuity in coming up with topics. But, he's only one person and he can't anticipate all of the grey areas--that's why we should all be active and help him out. The game is clearer, more challenging, and more fun when the grey areas are eliminated. It's much harder to play--and win--a game with strict rules. But, that also makes the game fairer and less subjective-- and also more fun to play. Less aggravation all around---including for Sypher.

This is kind of cheeky of me as I've only been playing 2 days, but Chelseabelle reckoned us "other players" should offer some feedback, so:

Is "Acrobatic" not kind of superfluous to "Hand Balancing"?

I'd have thought by its very nature hand balancing was acrobatic. Go on now - tear me apart!

LOL...I have to laugh because it is all fun and games especially when the trouble starts...

I remember when Snake first started. I wouldn;t post the topic until a few hours before the start of the game so it gave everyone no chance to research all weekend. That stopped when the grey areas became to much of a problem. So, the solution was posting the game topic on a Saturday which gave most players a chance to ask questions and eliminate some grey areas.

No offence, but that has seemed to have stopped. As for CB's comment on challenging entries. Most of the time I don't challenge since I think nearly all of the entries seem valid enough. Second, there is a problem with the time-zone difference. Most challenges happen around midday FT time which is when I am not around as I have just left work (5pm GMT). So, any player that might want to have challenged might not since someone else got there beforehand, so I think it was a little unfair in what CB said.
CB...you are most welcomed to challenge the grey areas as much as you like. I never think you moan, nag or harrass as every person's input is important to me. People see things differently, and might spot potential hazards that I might have missed, so please continue !!

I will be looking at the 'Challenging rules' again and try and find a way to improve it...I did like the way Sage introduced this bonus scoring whilst I was away. Maybe Sage can help define it, maybe not....I know he is very busy, what with Shoot-out and Quest. It's not a problem !!

A thought for all players - If you have any ideas for future topics....let me know either by PM or Snaketalk. Every idea is considered and never rejected, just depends on whether it could last a week.

So, think fast and think hard....Oops...before I forget...we will still keep the three letter entries going...the game started that way and will end that way. It's the fair thing to do since some players haven't used three worded entries yet..(like myself).

Keep on playing and have fun !!

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...and I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues !!

Sypher. I was so happy to see somall make a challenge--(see, somall, no one attacked you )-- but, why did you just ignore somall's challenge of JoJo's entry?

OOOPS Deleting superfluous remark, sorry.

[This message has been edited by ren32 (edited 02-07-2001).]

Oops...so much to say and again I forget to say everything...
As far as JJ's entry.....Yes and No they are the same, but they could be acrobats who balance things on their hands....therefore the entry would still be valid. I hope that makes sense !!

I got busy at work, so can I slip in after Baglady?

OK, I'm totally confused - Why didn't I get points for yesterday??? I can't find a challenge, and I can't think of a reason I would have been subject to a challenge, but I would have defended if I had known.
I was out at an appointment this morning, so I'm just getting here - don't know whether BL wants to truck ahead and I'll sneak in after or what. Let me know, Darlin', and I'll act accordingly!!!

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Sieze the moment. Remember all those women on the Titanic who waved off the dessert cart.
Erma Bombeck

I'm now well confused! If they were acrobats balancing things on their hands wouldn't that be Acrobats Hand Balancing?

Acrobatic is an adjective describing the Hand Balancing, and therefore superfluous, as all Hand Balancing is acrobatic. It's like writing cold snow or edible food. It adds nothing to the meaning of the item and is a blatant attempt to gain points fraudulently - the act of a ruthless Snake player!

PS: Please can I have my 10 points now as I want to give Chelseabelle a run for her money?

Mamaja, I think it's because you followed netting with sawdust which is a bit surreal but I love it!

Mama...you go ahead, because PARTSDUDE'S following me today!

BL

Oh, dear lord!!! I have been sitting here trying to figure out what was wrong and didn't even realize we were on page 2 of the thread, so I didn't see the challenge. Meantime, I did it again, I searched for so long that I mentally switched my letter and went from there. I could not for the life of me figure out why Partsdude asked me if I had a brain fart yesterday - You all must think I'm ready for the nuthouse. I probably AM!!!
Oh, well, I'll jump in here now, and use the rest of this week as a warm up for being wild and winning next week in both Snake and Scramble!!!!

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Sieze the moment. Remember all those women on the Titanic who waved off the dessert cart.
Erma Bombeck