I must point something out. That was a great statement right there. You say "before the internet". You are right, before the internet, rules and conventions were much different than they are on the internet. There are different rules wherever you go. In this case, you "went" to the internet, and rules here are different than perhaps you are used to elsewhere. The best I can say is to adapt to the rules of the Internet. Just as if you were to move to a different country where the culture is completely different, you need to adapt to your surroundings. Yes, it might be different than you grew up with, but around here, it is what goes. The FunTrivia rules are not incorrect, as you have suggested. They are simply different than you are used to.

I was just drawing attention to your promise, mehaul, and asking that you please keep it. Let's not revolve in pedantic circles about it, OK?

I couldn't agree more with Liz's statement, and mehaul, at least two editors have told you that the guidelines are to put titles in quote marks. Liz has been an editor almost the entire time she has been a member, and she started about the time I did as a member...11 years ago. I think she knows what will work.

To me, this is a non-issue. Referring to a work of art by its truncated or commonly used title seems to be one of those movements or changes that happen in living languages. We put quotation marks around the truncated title because for practical purposes, that IS the title. The quotes are an aid to readability, and the truncation is an aid to communication - many users may not even be aware of the original correct title. And why should they be, if common practice has changed it?

At any rate, FT conventions are what FT staff determine them to be.

The only thing I've managed so far to find is this from the APA (American Psychological Association) guide to citation of journals, articles etc. While the guidelines are specific to the APA they do state their style is line with other social sciences. I'm sure they aren't too aberrant from other social norms The full title of the Jenkins work they cite from the blog “Confessions of an ACA-Fan. The official Weblog of Harry Jenkins” and the page they cite is “Live Action Anime? Only at MIT!”

"APA style calls for authors to be specific about identifying the location of direct quotations and paraphrases. Therefore, if you are citing from
an electronic resource without page numbers, such as a Web page, use the paragraph number if it is visible.... If the online document
includes headings, in the in-text citation, cite both the heading and the number of the paragraph.... If the heading is too long, use a
shortened title within your citation."

"Introducing his blog posting about “live action” anime, Jenkins (2007) proclaims that this type of event
could happen “only at MIT” (para. 1). "

http://academic.cengage.com/resource_uploads/downloads/0495799661_216547.pdf

So if you're writing for the APA feel free to use “Tom Sawyer” rather than the full title.

APA is very similar to MLA in many regards; there's a lot of crossover.

I'm sure there is. I tried to find a quote about abbreviations and that was the only one I found. The rules about writing journal articles, theses, papers of any sort seem to all be the same in different fields with perhaps only tiny variations. I'm sure the APA is pretty much in line with other spheres of publication...and they say "Tom Sawyer" is fine.

I began by saying I noted the occurence of this happening. I said I thought it was wrong. I never said FT cannot have their conventions to follow. I never said any editor had done anything wrong. I'm glad they have a stand and that the editors discuss the reasons why they decide what they do. Yes. languages change but we (everyone) should discuss the changes that are growing around us. I think I will consult with
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node00.html
"Guide to Punctuation" by Larry Trask of the University of Sussex, 1997
from 'Quotation Marks in titles':
"It is still not exactly wrong to refer to a newspaper as `The Guardian', or to a book as `Uncle Tom's Cabin', but it is certainly old-fashioned now, and my advice is to use italics rather than quotation marks, except perhaps when you are writing by hand."

I might have breached this issue in hopes that as history has shown, new generations of software seem to increase our capabilities as this blogging software does things the quizzyland cannot now do. Maybe I hoped that we don't get into new hard rules before the technology catches up so the old rules can be honored. Thank you all for discussing it.

I knew Larry Trask. He was a respected academic and his advice was in general sound. I should point out that the University of Sussex, where he worked from 1988 until his death, always tried to be punctilious about following correct usage in its publications and we had a university style guide long before Larry arrived. However, Larry was also a realist. If HTML and/or other code was not available to make the use of Italics feasible, which on FT it is not because of the risk of malicious code, then he would have reverted to the traditional use of quotation marks. In the UK we use single quotes for publications but in the USA the use of double quotes is common and as this is an American site it's quite acceptable.

Edited to add, in very small writing, that I'm saying nothing about my involvement with the university's style guide because this site gets on to Google and if I wanted to be found I'd stop hiding behind a rabbit.

Hey Guggle, she's over here!

Amen! Thank you for putting it so succinctly and clearly. And lest people think that I am talking to myself, spanishliz and I share an avatar, but we are two different FT members.

Sue (shuehorn)

I still have a theory that you are both the same person, and really, there is a fancy program that uses magic changing letters in the username so it appears as though one says spanishliz and one says shuehorn, when in reality, it really says "Terryissupreme", but the letters fluctuate and appear to say different things.

Mind you, that is just a theory, and I am sure the theory is rather incorrect.

Hmm, fascinating theory

salami_swami, you just made me splash my laptop with coffee because I laughed so hard. What a hoot! Conspiracies abound... I admire spanishliz a lot, but we are different people.

She's a star poster and an editor. I am a faithful member and a regular poster. We both just love beagles. And I think we both speak Spanish too...

Maybe there are similarities, but there are differences as well.

edited to eliminate some silly typos

I like the theory, however, it is only a theory. Can it be proven? Likely, but not the way it is intended.

Liz has also been here a lot longer (even longer than I have) than shuehorn has.

It takes time to develop a second split personality that can stand on its own two feet. Just ask my brother, Tripp. How come we never see both avatars in one post, huh? Never in the same place at the same time is a dead give-away.

Right, she has been here longer.... But that is because her secondary name did not appear until later. It is still the same letter-sparkly-altering-changy-terryissupreme program, but something went haywire and the program split into two separate programs; so those programs now appear as two separate accounts, but they are still both the same that have stemmed from the same "Terryissupreme" account.

Ya gotta love a good conspiracy theory!

That's interesting - I've always used double quotes. I just assumed it was a personal choice, or perhaps something to do with whether or not you needed the shift key on a typewriter. I must have been American in a previous life.

I've looked up MLA and see that it comes from an American university. Is there an equivalent standard in all the English-speaking countries - does anyone know or shall I look that up too?

There's really no standard anywhere, Lesley. At the one university I went to, I had to use at least three different style guides depending on what the class was and what the professor preferred - MLA, APA, Chicago-style... and I feel like there were more too but those are the three I remember!

Three? There lies lunacy!

I remember aspiring to learn and write good or received English, but don't remember anyone going to the trouble of codifying it. What a sweet, innocent life I led!

Actually, there are standards everywhere! That's the problem!

But you're talking about two different things here.

The standards for quotation marks are quite flexible, although in the U.S. I've seen remarkable consistency: double quotes for everything except quotes inside of quotes.

"Ralph just said, 'Me, too,'" whined Mark.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

The other thing brought up was standards for citing references. There is any number of style guides, depending on the discipline and the continent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation#Citation_styles

Purdue University keeps up a helpful website with details on the three main systems used in U.S. universities. (Didn't GG attend a Canadian uni?)
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/section/2/

I attended a Canadian university and most of my classes required APA formatting, except the one English class I took, which used MLA.

Aaah - perhaps that's the answer: these standards are imposed on university students, who will often need to quote sources, and be clear about what they're quoting. For the rest of the world, standards of presentation of sources don't need to be quite so rigorous.

Is that it - the formatting standards were created by, and for, universities?

Lesley, most formatting styles that I know about and used, even in universities, were originally written for newspapers. The Times had a style guide, as did the Observer; there is a version of the latter online but it is not as complete as the book they used to publish. And they were, and we were, very rigorous because our audience wasn't students but their parents and teachers who would write a sharp letter to the editor/vice-chancellor should we fail in our duty to the language!