SORRY. I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS POSTED TWICE

[This message has been edited by clara64 (edited 08-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by clara64 (edited 08-29-2000).]

This is a wonderful thread. There are so many people who have a need to talk to someone - to just have someone listen to them. Not everyone can afford to pay a professional counselor to listen, and sometimes anonymity will make it easier for a person to open up.

I have battled with clinical depression for many years. There were days when I didn't know if I could get out of bed. I would avoid so many activities and people that I enjoyed because I could never know if I'd be able to function at any given time. I tried several medications and some would help for awhile; then the depression would return.

Depression is not understood by the the population on a whole. It can be a devasting illness that affects all those who must deal with the victim.

This depression has changed me so much. I hate my personality (or lack of) when in the throes of depression but am at a total loss to change it. Even when things are going well I feel that I'm just waiting for it to return.

I made the decision to stay completely off medication and try to control this on my own. I must say that in the last few months I've been doing extremely well. Yes, there are days when I feel depressed BUT I know it is not depression. After all this time I'm very much in tune with my body; I know what's happening.

But it's a battle that doesn't end. I'd say that about now I'm a Major General in my army.

I'd be happy to talk with suffers of clinical depression. I don't pretend to have answers but I can listen.

Clara, your post was very touching. I think we have all gone through depession at some degree and having someone to talk to can be most theraputic. Welcome to the support group and thank you for your kindness to want to reach out to others who may be depressed and no one to turn to. I hope that we can be here for you also.

Here is my story that I talked about in the Tavern: You have no idea how much FunTrivia and all of you have helped me in my life. I have held a little secret that I think it is high time I shared with you. A few years back I experienced three or four very devastating things in my life. Because of this, I lost all all self esteem and I went into a deep depression and became house bound. I didn't leave the house for four years. I was ready to end it all, seriously. Then one day I came upon FunTrivia and made my first post. A lovely lady by the name of Linda1 replied back to me with an extra sweet welcome. Then she announced that FT had a new member that is somewhat of a celebrity (because of my father). Linda1 and I had a few things in common like Swing dancing and that was one of the reasons why I returned to FT. Then some lovely people like Sandalwood, Jollymon, Cohalen, Leprechaun joined in the decussion about Louis Prima and I started to feel at home because everyone was so friendly. The people here were so supportive and friendly and quick to compliment each other and give hugs and kisses and well, I don't know how to explain it but I started getting feeling a little bit better about myself and starting coming out of my depression a little. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts that had me laughing so hard that I almost fell off my chair and you all know how laughter can be good medicine. After awhile Sandalwood and I starting talking on the phone and became very close friends. We talked every day on the telephone and she has been by my side ever since. In addition to this Terry made me one of his moderator's. Now being a moderator is really no big deal, but when you in the state that I was in, it was a very big deal. Days and months passed and I felt close to many of you and I have talked on telephone with human, TexasJoe, Fig, Princesspatty, Sagebrush, Cohalen, (I hope I am not leaving anyone out) Many of you supported me via e-mail and ICQ like Auschic, Fortunata, Caerr, Amlet, etc. All of this contributed to my coming out of my depression and as of a year ago, I have slowly been able to leave the house. I am able to go out without any panic attacks and I try to leave the house at least once a week now. All of you and FunTrivia have literally saved my life. When I say that I love you all, I mean it from the bottom of heart. If I have left out any names please forgive me, but it wasn't easy to finally come out and admit this.

Have another big hug from over the pond! What would we all do without you JoJo - you have given support and help to many in FT, me included. We all love you.

Big hugs for you too Clara - and as for the depression, as you say it affects so many people - to a lesser degree I can add 'me too' but it was a long time ago and in my case easily sorted as it turned out to be an early menopause causing havoc with my hormones.

Hugs to anyone who wants one just now {{{HUG}}}

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From over the pond....

[This message has been edited by sue943 (edited 08-20-2000).]

And we all love you too Sue. You are so caring and thoughtful and always willing to lend a hand. Your sense of humor has also gotten me through a day or two.

Depression is a real true problem today...

I have found that when ever I am depressed that the way to help myself is to help someone else..I know that sounds funny because it is hard to face the day..But I have found that when our attention is off of ourselves it seems to work.

I find that I must get out of myself to over-come the feelings of helplessness.

Another way for me is to meditate on the fact that I am never alone. This is sometimes hard if you do not have a partnership with a higher being..but I focus until I can really feel that I am not alone.

At other times I force myself to do housework and put all of my thoughts and energy into the task I am doing....

I talk to trees,bugs,plants anything that will move myself away from my feelings about me.

Big hugs Clara..I have been there and can truly understand what you are feeling...

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Sandalwood's Cosmic Creations: Working with the magic of love....

Thank you JoJo2 for sharing your story. I've only been with FT for a few months but I saw right away that this was a great place to be. It's very obvious that many of you care deeply about each other.

My depression has never been caused by situations in my life. It's all been with the messed up chemicals in my brain. And yes, sandelwood, when a person is in a depressive state they tend to focus entirely on themselves rather than see the "big picture". I often described it as having a big black veil covering my eyes. There was no joy, no sun.

I once found the following (I can not for the life of me remember where):

".....Heaviness, gloom, coldness, sullenness, distast and desultory sloth in work and prayer, joylessness and thanklessness, - do we not know something of the threatenings, at least, of a mood in which these meet? The mood of days on which it seems we cannot get rid of a dull or acrid tone in our voice; when it seems impossible frankly to "rejoice with them that do rejoice," and equally impossible to go freely out in any true unselfish sympathy with sorrow; days when, as one has said, "everything that everybody does seems inopportune and out of good taste; "days when the things that are true and honest, just and pure, lovely and of good report, seem to have lost all loveliness and glow and charm of hue, and look as dismal as a flat country in the drizzling mist of an east wind; days when we might be cynical if we had a little more energy in us; when all enthusiasm and confidence of hope, all sense of a Divine impulse, flags out of our work; when the schemes which we have begun look stale and poor and unattractive as the scenery of an empty stage by daylight; days when there is nothing that we like to do--when without anything to complain of, nothing stirs so readily in us as complaint. Oh, if we know anything at all of such a mood as this, let us be careful how we think of it, how we deal with it; for perhaps it may not be far from that "sorrow of the world" which, in those who welcome and invite its presence, "worketh death".
---The Sorrow of the World
with an introductory essay on Accidie
by Francis Paget, D.D.;, Late Bishop of Oxford, 1912

I kept that little slip for my husband because it absolutely describes my depressive state and I wanted him to be aware so he could recognize whatwas going on with me at those times.

Thanks for listening, understanding and sharing. I'm here to listen, too

Thanks for this thread, here is my story!

My father has always had kidney problems, in 1986 he lost 1 kidney, his other kidney was about 20% in working order, so he was put on dialysis, which he had to have every 3 days for 4 hours at a time. He was placed on the list for a kidney transplant, he waited about 3 years then he got the call,the kidney worked great for about 1 year, then it failed and again he was put back on dialysis, and besides his kidney problem the doctors found out he had heart problems also.
All of these problems contributed to weaken his pancreas, which in Sept of 1999 he was rushed to the hospitol to have his pancreas removed, we were told he had a 5% chance of getting off the operating table, well he made it through that first operation, only to find he needed a second operation. The pancreas infection was going thru his body.
He was on a respirator, he couldn't talk but he could use his hands to talk to us, he wanted to die, he didnt want to go thru the pain anymore, but my mom couldnt go through with it until the following week, when they unplug his heart machine. My father was in the hospitol for 2 months, he died on November 19, 1999.
My mother also had heart problems, she has had 2 heartattacks in the year 1999, six months apart, she was a heavy smoker. She decided to quit smoking and go on the patch,she started the patch on January 6th,2000, well I told her she could not smoke while on the patch, well she told me that she knew how it worked. Well without my knowing she kept on smoking, she would take the patch off and then right after that she would light up a cigerette. She died on January 14th,2000 from a heartattack.I found her in her house.
I just cant believe both my parents are gone, within 2 months from each other!!
I have been put on medicine for depression, it is working, and my family helps me with this , which I am thankful for.I have also started to have kidney problems, 1 of my kidneys do not work 100%, my legs are so swollen(just like dad's were)so I am being tested for alot of stuff right now.
I want to thank all of you here at FT for listening to me, and thanks for being my friends, I love all of you! FT is getting to be like family to me!!

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I live life in the fast lane, but I'm married to a speed bump.

Clara thank you for sharing the 'Sorrow of the World'. Remember that we are always here for you and we love you. We will always be by your side and if you ever start to feel the least bit blue, let us know so that we can support you. The power of love can do amazing things. <hugs>

billsgyrl, my heart goes out to you. It is hard to imagine losing two parents in such a short span of time. I know you had to be strong for your children, but I hope you gave yourself some time to grieve so that you could heal. I am concerned about your medical problems and I hope you are going to your doctor for regular check ups. For the sake of your husband and children who love and depend on you please do everything you doctor says. We love you and we want the very best for you and your health. I don't have any children, but I know that many moms put their children first. If you really want to put them first, then take time out for yourself and get the proper medical attention that you need. Thank you for sharing your story with us billsgyrl and we will always be here for you. <hugs>

[This message has been edited by JoJo2 (edited 08-21-2000).]

billsgyrl, you have my most sincere sympathy. I have lost both of my parents and I know how hard that is. To loose both of them in such a short span has to be devastating. It is understandable that you are suffering depression. I'm glad you have the support of your family, and I hope you will take care of yourself. The fact that your mother didn't listen to medical advice should make you realize how important it is to follow the orders of your doctor. And have faith that with the advances in medicine, whatever the problems you are experiencing may be controlled and/or corrected. My best to you...........

Carol

Thanks for your well wishes JoJo and clara!
Yes I am following Doctors orders,Bill see to that. I am still grieving,I am getting better as time goes on! I am still trying to get their estate settled, it takes such a long time.I recently found love letters that they wrote to each other,while my dad was in the service, before they were married, they are precious to me! I am feeling better with my loss. Thanks again for being here and listening.

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I live life in the fast lane, but I'm married to a speed bump.

Billsgryl..I am at a loss for words...

Finding your mother must have been horrible for you.

I cared for my mother as she died of cance and my grandmother as she died of bone cancer I know the pain of loss.

We just two weeks ago went through a kidney transplant with my sister-in-law...

You must remember that your life is important and that you will meet again someday.

I understand the depression also..Your children need you...Try and focus on them...

I am soo sorry for your loss...I wish I could say more..But I know that words cannot change our feelings..It has to come from within..Look for your hope within...

Big hugs!!!

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Sandalwood's Cosmic Creations: Working with the magic of love....

JoJo, what an inspiration to start this post!

Seems we all have things to share, but not always someone to share them with.

Clara! You give yourself a big hug from me, it seems that you are on the road to recovery!

JoJo! You're always so up-beat here, I would have never guessed. I'm glad you're enjoying some sunshine in your life

billsgyrl! I'm so sorry for your losses. I've been fortunate, not to have had many close relatives pass on in my family. I couldn't imagine losing both of my parents in such a short period of time. You are a very brave person to share with us. Please accept a hug from me {{HUG}} Find solace in the fact that you will be reunited.

SB

You are so sweet shuttlebunny.

Billsgyrl, I have to say I am sorry for not mentioning how sorry I was to hear that you were the one to find your mother. Many years ago, my mother was in a coma and she died in my arms. I think some sort of safety net fell on me when I read your post to not let allow me to feel emotion at the time. Now that I have spent a few hours away and have come back, my heart ached for you. Our thoughts are with you and I am so glad you have the love letters to reflect of the love your parents shared together.

Now, I think I will share a little bit of good news. A friend of mine is driving me over to Sandalwood's house this weekend. It is about a four hour trip and this will be the first time I been out of town in over six years. So my friends, not only have you helped me to get out of the house, I am going out of town. Hugs to you all.

As most of you know Vendome (Rich) goes into Johns Hopkins Hospital to see if he's a candidate for the brain stimulation procedure. I have a thread in Season Tickets to wish him well. Please show our love and support by posting in that thread as well as sending him cards (via e-mail). vendome's e-mail address is: rdavenportparis@cs.com

I am bringing this thread up to the top before it gets buried.

I didn't go into elaborate details in my last thread, but it is time to now about my 'lost' soul mate.

At summer camp this year I found a new, or my true, soul mate. If people are allowed to have two soul mates, he is one of them.

We met by pure luck. Our troop only had 2 more places for extra (provisional) campers. The week before, Mark Grandjean, gave his money to become a provisional. There were many other campsites that had tons of open spaces, but him and the other person from his troop, Shawn Miller, were put in shawnee. But that is not where we stopped meeting each other. We both were in the Indian Lore merit badge class, which only had two people- me and him.

There we needed to do some strategic planning. This is where we really got to know each other. We needed to build a lifesize wigwam. We probably spent 2, maybe even three, hours a day working on it. Through that we got to know each other. One of the things we talked about was soul mates. He said that 'I still have not found my soul mate- but I think I am very soon'.

At the end of summer camp, we gave our farewells and we exchanged our screen names. Unfortunately, I got the wrong one. Now there is no way of contacting him.

Recently, I have been having dreams about him that make me wake up during the night. They are so depressing that I wake up during the night crying- for I can find my soul mate once again.

Please try not to cry BoyScout. I have provided a few links for you to try to find him in your other thread. If that doesn't work, call your Boyscout leader. I am sure he will be happy to reunite the two of you together. So please put a smile on your face as I am sure you will be able to find him, just pick up the phone tomorrow morning and make that call sweetie. Keep us posted.

I will keep you posted. So far no results have come up. My scoutmaster's phone is usually busy so everything might stop until after Labor Day- when we go back to Boy Scouts.

As for crying JoJo, it's just something I cannot help. However I will try my best not to cry.

Just keep in mind that your scoutmaster will probably find a way to reunite you with you friend after he hears from you. I hope that you will find some comfort in knowing that.

I do have comfort in that. Right now is a time in my life if I think of something I negative, I plunge into depression. It's just that I am worrying something happened to Mark. Tears are streaming down my eyes- because I miss him; because you care so much about me.

There is a really good book called "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by Dr. David D. Burns. Depression is very common, just most people don't know that because it is not an illness that one usually talks about. I guess there is still the stigma that mental illness is brought on by a weak character which is definately not true. I found this book very helpful to me when I was going through a very down period in my life. Even now and then, I still pick it up and re-read certain parts to keep my perspective of life on track. I'd like to share a bit of the book here with you, and if you like, I can add more later.

quote:

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Depression is an illness that always results from thoughts that are distorted in some way. For example, when a loved one dies, you validly think, "I lost him (or her), and I will miss the companionship and love we shared." The feelings such a thought creates are tender, realistic and desirable. Your emotions will enhance your humanity and add depth to the meaning of life. In this way you gain from your loss.

In contrast, you might tell yourself, "I'll never again be happy because he (or she) died. It's unfair!" These thoughts will trigger in you feelings of hopelessness. Because these emotions are based on distortion, they will defeat you.

When a genuinely negative event occurs, your emotions will be created exclusively by your thoughts and perceptions. Your feelings will result from the meaning you attach to what happens. A substantial portion of your suffering will be due to the distortions in your thoughts. When you eliminate these distortions, you will find that coping with the "real problem" will become less painful.

---

The book goes on to explain there is a difference between sadness which has a time limit and does not involve losing one's self-esteem, and depression which persists or recurs indefinitely.

Sometimes it is hard to put feelings into words, or share them with others. I just wanted to thank JoJo for starting this topic and to all of you who are "surviving" sad or difficult times, my thoughts are with you.

On a personal note, I would like to share this: Several years ago, my brother-in-law was killed in fighting in Bosnia. My husband is from Croatia and we had several very tense years of worry and watching CNN news wondering whose village would be next. We both had the classic signs of depression - the hopelessness that we could not change what was happening; guilt at living in Canada safe from harm while family members and friends were in danger. I still remember it like yesterday when we got the phone call late at night, saying that he had been injured while on patrol by a hand-grenade. So unfair that the only shrapnel wound was to the side of his head. Why couldn't it have been an arm or a foot? Despair at waiting for another phone call telling us he died in hospital two days later - no medicines or surgical care was available. (Remember MASH? There are three levels - the ones who can wait, the ones who receive attention, and the ones who would take up too much resources without a very good chance of recovery so they are set aside and allowed to die.) Then there was the guilt of not being able to attend his funeral and not being able to be physically with other family members to grieve. No passenger planes were flying to that area at the time - plus, we just couldn't afford the trip on such short notice.

Anyway, the breaking point for me was when I went back to work after taking two "sick" days. I remember everyone making the usual morning commute downtown, the sun was shining. At work, people were joking while getting their morning coffee, some talking about last night's TV show. Inside, I felt like screaming "STOP!! How can you all just go on with your lives as if nothing has happened?" I felt so isolated that I had to leave again. I suppose I could have talked with Canadian friends or co-workers about what was going on half-way around the world, but it didn't seem right at the time as the war in former Yugoslavia was not something that concerned them. We only spoke of these things with Croatian and Bosnian friends and family.

I guess the point of this story is that I probably would have coped better if I had sought someone outside of family, told them what had happened, and received a bit of emotional support. It made me think that this place is just what I would have needed. Knowing that strangers stopped for five minutes and thought about my brother-in-law and others like him; expressed their sympathy and offerred a bit of their time just to listen to my story.

(Apologies for the really long post.)

Astrix, your post was not too long. I read every word twice. First I would like to thank you for joining us here and I would like to give you a big hug.

The death of a loved one is always painful, but I can see that you had to deal with other complicated issues as well. Not being able to fly to back home to be with your husband's relatives and worrying about the villages where your husband's family resides is a horror that I can't imagine. How you both managed to cope is amazing. Maybe the love that you had for each other helped to pull you through.

Astrix, I admire your courage to move forward and dealing with the issues that brought on your depression. I know that it is not an easy thing to do. I also admire your courage to express your feeling and emotions and sharing them with us.

I would really appreciate it if you did post more from the book, "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy". Maybe even opening a new thread and posting to it whenever you feel like it.

It warms my heart to know that we can find comfort in each other here. Once again you are all remarkably warm and wonderful people. The amount of empathy and compassion from each of you makes me feel like I am in a room filled with human angels.

Astrix, for one, do not be sorry for such a long post. There is no need to be.
Your brother died for a good cause. What really makes me angry is the fact of the three stages. Human being are precious. They should not be allowed to just sit there and die. My dearest sympathy goes out to you.

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IndianPainter
Too Many People Search For Love Instead Of Giving It

Astrix

What you and your husband suffered is beyond the imagination of most of us. We have such safe lives, especially in the U.S., and have not experienced war on our home soil since the Civil War. My sympathies to you, your husband and your families. I hope you have all found a peace within yourselves.

This is a wonderful place. It is just so hard to talk about suffering depression. Even though millions of people suffer with it, I have found that most people simply don't understand that it is a serious illness. You are correct when you say that depression seems to have a stigma attached to it. When I finally told my brother that I had suffered from depression for years, his first words were "you aren't going to kill yourself, are you?" He couldn't begin to understand and had no intention of trying to find out anything more about it. "Hey, if I don't ask, it doesn't exist" - seemed to be his thoughts. When I've actually confided in someone, I always felt like I was confessing to something.