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#984804 - Mon May 20 2013 07:10 PM Moore, OK tornadoes
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 24575
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA
As of this edit, 24 are confirmed dead after a massive tornado all but flattened the city. Moore is about 15 miles south of Oklahoma City.

Story here.

It was rated as an EF5 tornado. This is the fifth time since October 1998 that Moore was directly hit.


Edited by dg_dave (Tue May 21 2013 06:54 PM)
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#984858 - Tue May 21 2013 03:27 AM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
That is terrible . Such a disaster.
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#984988 - Tue May 21 2013 06:12 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ladymacb29 Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
News is saying now only 21 dead, 9 of whom are children (7 of whom died at one of the schools).

Two news clips kept making me cry today: The first with the woman who was being interviewed and talking about how her dog is presumed dead, then the reporter sees movement in the rubble and it was the lady's dog. The second is a mom who finds her son at the school, then starts hugging the teacher, thanking her for keeping him safe and the teacher kept repeating 'he was so brave'.
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#984994 - Tue May 21 2013 06:46 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
Loved the dog video! It never even whimpered or made any sound at all to draw attention too itself. Strange. She never picked the dog up to hug it. Hope her back is alright.
The first story I saw after the twister passed was the one from the horse stables where the groom was moved 100 yards along the concrete slab of the stable with his tack room, which ended its journey crushed flat to the ground. In the background of that interview were two horses, an adult and a foal, standing nose to nose as if consoling each other.

Edit to add: A surprising statistic. The population of residents who lived in the footprint of the devastation path is 20,000! Sure, many were off at work, outside the area when the tragedy occurred, but the small percentage of fatalities (circa 0.1%) while everything else appears to have been through a blender, is a testament to the preparedness of the community to react to the rapid threat.


Edited by mehaul (Tue May 21 2013 07:24 PM)
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#985039 - Wed May 22 2013 01:01 AM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
Jabberwok Offline
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Registered: Tue Jun 24 2008
Posts: 427
Loc: Sussex England UK             
It does seem odd that there are no public shelters in the city, and very few in the general area. During WW2, Britain had a lot of them for people who didn't have the facilities to create a domestic one.

This is the BBC's take on it, would anyone care to comment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22619929
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#985065 - Wed May 22 2013 05:50 AM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
The average alarm time is about 15 minutes with today's radar/computer projections. The structure of tornadoes, rising from ground to cloud ceiling, makes them highly visible. Back in the days of farming (and probably today too) isolation and remoteness called for a personal safety hole. In this day and age, it is just as easy to hear the warning, look up to see if the tornado is nearby, if so, get in your car and drive away. The Moore Twister traveled at 20 mph. You could almost have gotten away from it on a bicycle. In congested public places - schools, malls, public buildings - there does seem to be a need to include a shelter. I think one of the schools hit was newish and designed to withstand 200 mph winds. The other school was built in the 60s and was unfortunately not so designed. I beleive it is already on the books to design safely. Besides the children, some death's (3) were from a corner 7/11/gas-station, a free standing structure which probably should have been evacuated. The other dozen lives were lost to people sheltering in place. They most likely thought the interior no window room would save them as they'd been advised by meteorologists and newscasters for years.
The question here might be better posed as "Should all buildings (homes included) be designed and built to withstand 200 mph winds, or, should building codes be eased and communal shelters be built?" I think the first case is the way to go. Some of the children who died were in a hole in the ground which was covered by debris, trapping them down and then broken waterlines and rain filled the hole with water and they suffered death by being drowned. The OK undersoil is a compacted clay which does not allow water to drain, much like a clay pot. The Moore Hospital, destroyed by the '98 tornado was rebuilt to act in part as a shelter. Half of it was torn apart in this storm! So, shelters are not always the safest place to be. Running away is the better tactic. Don't even waste time thinking of which way the bolt hole is. Remember, during the Blitz, you knew being above ground where the bombs were bursting in random locations was deadly and you didn't know where the bomb would burst, ergo, hunker-bunker down was safest. If you know where those bombs would be (as in the case of a tornado), it would have been safest then to withdraw from the area by the fastest means possible.
I think we'll find that building codes and permit requirements were relaxed in this OK area. How else can you account for so many mobile homes and no community shelters?
'Twould be another case of caving to the contractor for his profit at the public expense 'twere it so.
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#985170 - Wed May 22 2013 06:05 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 16214
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
News was saying today there are no public shelters because the chance of one coming to the town was 1%.

I thought it odd she didn't pick up the dog too - I figured maybe she was too weak to pick up the dog herself...
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#985177 - Wed May 22 2013 07:53 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ClaraSue Offline
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Registered: Sun May 18 2003
Posts: 7842
Loc: Arizona USA
I thought that maybe the dog was old and wouldn't appreciate being picked up, much like ClaraSue these days. Or that the woman didn't have the strength to pick him up.

I heard on the news this morning that in order for each school to have a tornado shelter, it would cost over $1 million for each shelter.
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#985296 - Thu May 23 2013 04:19 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
paul4760 Offline
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Registered: Sun Mar 10 2013
Posts: 43
Loc: Iowa USA
My thoughts and sympathy are with those folks. I live in tornado country although ours are usually not so violent. But I was wondering....couldn't they tweak their school year so those kids are out of school in April-May-part of June? Then the kids wouldn't be gathered at schools during the months when these things are most likely to strike. Just a thought.
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#985308 - Thu May 23 2013 07:55 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ren33 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 12593
Loc: Kowloon Tong  Hong Kong      
Sorry to put a dampener on a perfect idea for a solution. Unfortunately the world revolves around public exams and at that time students are preparing for them and taking them. So unless you changed the times for the exams in the whole of the USA which is possible but quite a project,it wouldn't work.
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#985327 - Fri May 24 2013 01:03 AM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
Copago Offline
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Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
It is just incredible that there aren't more casualties .. it was such good news when the death count went so drastically down when most were expecting it to go up.

It's hard to imagine the total destruction! I should imagine it's pretty hard or at least expensive to get insurance?

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#985482 - Fri May 24 2013 10:32 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
Jar Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Apr 11 2001
Posts: 4224
Loc: Texas USA
I cannot imagine there are very many homeowners that don't have insurance. But still, there is the deductible to pay. If one has a mortgage, it is usually required to have insurance, and is normally included within the mortgage payment. After the house is paid for, most people continue to have insurance.

In my part of Texas, also in tornado alley, we have the highest insurance rates in the country. For example, in 1996 we had hail - on more than one occasion, but the first time it was baseball size hail and we had to have a new roof put on - then later that same year we had to have yet another roof put on. Luckily that has been the only time it ever happened in 23 years. And I remember when a tornado came within a mile of my home. But between hail and tornadoes the insurance cranks right up. In fact mine comes due in June and I save all year to pay for it. Some insurance companies will let the consumer pay a monthly premium if it is no longer required by having a mortgage.

The insurance companies are going to take a bit hit in Moore.


Edited by Jar (Fri May 24 2013 10:33 PM)
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#985602 - Sat May 25 2013 10:14 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
bitterlyold Offline
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Registered: Sat Oct 15 2011
Posts: 122
Loc: Arkansas USA
The Moore, OK, scene is horrific. I wonder if any of our members were involved. The reason I wonder is that on April 10, my house was destroyed by a tornado (Arkansas), and I am just now back up and running at home. I did play a bit at work, but I'm a teacher, so I didn't have a great deal of time to dedicate to FT. And I am a team leader.

Our event saw no loss of life, but 20 families were displaced. That was bad, but nothing like the tragedy in OK.

Is our site doing anything to help?

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#985604 - Sat May 25 2013 10:21 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
bitterlyold Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Sat Oct 15 2011
Posts: 122
Loc: Arkansas USA
And in praise of my team, they really made me proud. I would like to thank Dave for stepping up to the plate and helping my team during my absence. I am team leader of Running Amok, and now (since the tornado) I know the real meaning of our team's name. Note: motels that allow pets are expensive as heck. And schools are loathe to pay teachers to not be at work because of an "act of God." Could be just my district, but I suspect most schools are the same.

So, again, is our site in touch with any members of FT who may have been victims in OK, and is it possible for us to set up something for our members who may be victims of "acts of God" (i.e. natural disasters)?

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#985996 - Tue May 28 2013 01:56 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
mehaul Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
Here's a twist of Paul's idea: since most tornadoes occur in the later afternoon in this season, why not start the school days earlier and let the kids out sooner (yes, then they'd really be Oklahoma Sooners!)

Edit addition: A refinement of that idea:
Schools that have tested/inspected shelters can run regular school times; Schools that have no shelter or whose shelters are deficient must run an adjusted earlier schedule.


Edited by mehaul (Tue May 28 2013 08:01 PM)
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Dreams allow escape from the passage of Time.

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#986187 - Wed May 29 2013 03:04 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
paul4760 Offline
Participant

Registered: Sun Mar 10 2013
Posts: 43
Loc: Iowa USA
Mehaul's idea is valid. Tornadoes are destructive engines that need heat, moisture and wind shear in order to develop. These conditions are more rare in the early morning hours and so are tornadoes at those times (although they do happen).
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#986423 - Fri May 31 2013 06:41 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
dg_dave Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 24575
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA
And Oklahoma is getting walloped again.

Story here.


Edited by dg_dave (Fri May 31 2013 06:41 PM)
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The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#986521 - Sat Jun 01 2013 07:51 PM Re: Moore, OK tornadoes
ClaraSue Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Sun May 18 2003
Posts: 7842
Loc: Arizona USA
We were headed into Oklahoma City yesterday when we heard the news of the tornadoes on the radio. We stopped 100 miles west and waited until this morning to go through. When we went through at 7 a.m., we saw lots of debris, many over-turned cars and trucks, trees stripped of leaves and bark, and buildings torn up. What an awful sight. I feel so bad for the people of Oklahoma and my prayers and thoughts are with them.
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