If Beethoven was German, then why did he have the Dutch "van" Beethoven instead of the German "von" Beethoven?

zbeckabee

Although Beethoven was German by birth, his heritage was Dutch: hence his middle name being Van - not Von. http://answerpool.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/321601502/m/896607656 Apr 21 06, 4:03 AM

lanfranco

"Van" and "von" are not middle names, but rather prepositional prefixes meaning "of" or "from." In Germany, "von" was used to distinguish an aristocratic name (such as "Paul von Hindenburg"). In the Netherlands, the "van" usually merely indicated where someone (or someone's ancestor) had come from and might be prefixed to any surname involving a geographical origin (such as "Rembrandt van Rijn"). Apr 21 06, 8:12 AM

bloomsby

Beethoven's origins ("heritage") are Flemish, not Dutch. This link has a section specifically on his family's origins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_work_of_Ludwig_van_Beethoven Apr 21 06, 10:04 AM

zbeckabee

http://www.beethoven.ws/parents.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_people Of course, "Von" and "Van" are not middle names. Very sloppy of me to cut and paste without fully realizing what I was doing. Nevertheless, I can find numerous sources that state Beethoven's heritage as "Dutch" and numerous sources that state "Flemish." Apr 21 06, 12:03 PM

bloomsby

The Beethoven family is particularly closely associated with Mecheln (Malines) in Belgium. Even if one goes back to the 17th century, one finds that the family is associated with Boortmeerbeek, which was within the territory of modern Belgium. http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Famille/FamilyTreeBeethoven.html Apr 21 06, 4:03 PM

lanfranco

I'd have to agree with bloomsby that while Beethoven's surname may be linguistically Dutch, Mechelen can properly be described as a Flemish locality, dating back centuries, though it was, at one time, the capital of the Low Countries, which did include the areas that eventually became the Netherlands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechelen Apr 21 06, 5:18 PM

karl2m

I am Flemish and I live close to the area where Van Beethoven's grandfather was from. The meaning of his name is very simple: "van" is Dutch for "from" and "beethoven" can be split into two words: "beet", which means beet, and "hoven", which means gardens or fields. So basically Ludwig Van Beethoven means "Lewis (or Lodewijk or Louis) from the beet fields." In German, his name would have been something like "Ludwig von Rubenhoffen." Having said this, legend has it that in the town of Boortmeerbeek, near Mechelen, there is a tavern where Van Beethoven's grandfather still has an unpaid bill. Next time I go cycling in that area I'll check it out. Aug 19 08, 7:43 PM

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If Beethoven is German, then why does he have the Dutch "van" Beethoven instead of the German "von" Beethoven? Why is Ludwig van Beethoven called VAN rather than VON Beethoven? Why is Vincent Van Gogh known as Van Gogh, but Ludwig Van Beethoven known as Beethoven? Is it a convention of nationality, or something grammatical? What did Beethoven always do before he composed? Is there in Germany or in Holland a place named Beethoven?

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