Subject: History's Mysteries
Posted by: Cymruambyth
Date: Feb 19 09
There are many unresolved mysteries in history. For instance, who really killed the princes in the Tower (my money is on Henry VII)? What happened to the Roanoke settlers? Where exactly did Judge Crater get to? What would you like to see resolved?
Posted by: Cymruambyth
Date: Feb 19 09
There are many unresolved mysteries in history. For instance, who really killed the princes in the Tower (my money is on Henry VII)? What happened to the Roanoke settlers? Where exactly did Judge Crater get to? What would you like to see resolved?
136 replies. On page 4 of 7 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
trojan11 
|
Oh, I don't know TN. I'm sure that there's some kind of record appertaining to Cym and myself....somewhere. Reply #61. Mar 27 09, 1:38 PM |
daver852
|
It is true that Shakespeare's father was an alderman. But what you need to understand is that at the time Stratford was a very small town, and was located in the English equivalent of the boondocks. It was the 16th century equivalent of Pig's Knuckle, Arkansas. Just as an aside, Marlowe's father was a cobbler, so the class struggle doesn't really apply to the authorship question. John Marlowe could read and write, however. Reply #62. Mar 27 09, 4:18 PM |
| trojan11
|
16th century equivalent of Pig's Knuckle, Arkansas? Not really, Daver. You have to go back to before the 12th century to more accurately use that appellation. In 1196 Richard 1 granted Stratford market town status. By the mid thirteenth century Stratford had three separate and thriving markets. Also in the 13th century the grammar school was opened. Stratford contained many craftsmen and guilds; blacksmiths, carpenters, shoemakers, brewers and bakers, and so on. Population was around two thousand. Small by todays standards, but one should remember not to apply todays standards to the relative prosperity and importance of that which existed several centuries ago. In 1553 king Edward V1 refounded the grammar school and in the same year incorporated Stratford Upon Avon and formed a corporation to run it. At the time of Shakespeare's birth, Stratford was anything but some backwater dump. Small, it is true, but well favoured, prosperous and growing. This growth was savagely halted by outbreaks of the plague in 1564 and 1645. None of which has anything to do with who did or did not write the plays and sonnets attributed to Shakespeare. Rather, it enforces my contention, as opposed to yours, that Shakespeare attended the local King Edward V1 grammar school and was fully literate. Reply #63. Mar 28 09, 4:35 AM |
thewho13rd
|
Something concerning Shakespeare... was he really gay? Reply #64. Mar 28 09, 7:48 AM |
Cymruambyth
|
Not gay, but perhaps bisexual. You'd be surprised at the number of men who engaged in sexual relations with other men in Shakespeare's day. The relationships were not committed or even permanent. Elizabethans had a very different attitude toward sex than that which prevails today. The whole 'sex-as-a-moral-issue' didn't take hold until the introduction of Protestanism, more particularly Calvinism. Reply #65. Mar 28 09, 10:42 AM |
| trojan11
|
'Shall I compare thee to a summer's day Thou art more lovely and temperate'. A line from one of his early sonnets and clearly referring to a male. There are many such indications of Shakespeare's bi sexuality, veering on out and out homosexuality. His sonnets contain a great deal of homoeroticism. Reply #66. Mar 28 09, 2:20 PM |
| daver852
|
"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate" - this clearly refers to a male? No, it doesn't. Nor is there any evidence that whoever wrote Shakespeare's plays was gay or bi-sexual. Stratford in Shakespeare's time did have a market and a school. So what? Almost every town did, even ones as backward and insignificant as Straford. It was off the main roads, and isolated from all but local commerce. What little we know about it comes from surviving wills and legal documents which show that the people there were poorer than the national average for the time (Shakespeare bought the second best house in the entire town, New Place, for 60 pounds in 1597), and were also ignorant. The literacy rate in 16th century England was about 50%; in Stratford it was closer to 20%. But this begs the question. A poor man from a disadvantaged background could have become the greatest poet and playwright who has ever written in English. But all the evidence shows that the actor and grain merchant, Will Shakespeare of Stratford-Upon_Avon, didn't. The following link sums up the case against the Stratford man pretty well: http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=TwaDead.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=2&division=div2 Reply #67. Mar 28 09, 10:40 PM |
| trojan11
|
'What little we know comes from surviving wills and legal documents?' Hardly! There are Parish records dating back to 1091. There were various dignitaries that were associated with the town over many generations. Sir Hugh Clopton for one, who, in the 15th century had the local roads paved (unusual for that time and unheard of for a hick town) and initiated welfare schemes for local apprentices and girls. The Pitt family also had strong ties to Stratford. All references to Stratford at the time (before struck by plague) refer to it as being prosperous. Which is why men travelled to the place to find employment. Paved roads, churches, schools, employment. This was not a place that fits your description of a mud heap shanty town. The wool trade and various other trades flourished. England at that time had a population of perhaps just under five million. Two hundred thousand of those lived in London. England was not a place of vast cities, glittering gambling palaces, bowling alleys and six lane highways. Your suggestion, as such it should be, concerning literacy rates is ill founded, as no precise figure can be given, merely 'suggested'. There simply are no records to substantiate such a claim. There is, however, plenty of guesswork. As to whether Shakespeare was gay or not. Your attention should be directed to his earlier sonnets, rather than his plays. Certainly open to interpretation, much of what he wrote can be taken one way or another. However, if a man writes several poems to a beautiful young man known as the 'Fair Lord' or 'Fair Youth', and refers to him as 'my dear love' whilst also referring to sleepless nights and jealousy caused by the youth, it is hardly surprising that later readers might question his sexuality. Sonnet 20 may well be the best clue. The writer tells the boy to sleep with women, but to love only him: 'mine be thy love and thy love's use their treasure'. But as I said, it is all open to interpretation. Although, it is possible that such cryptic writing might well be down to the fact that the Sodomy Statute 5 Elizabeth, Chapter 17, passed by Parliament in 1562-63 made the act of sexual penetration between males and offence that was punishable by death. Reply #68. Mar 29 09, 6:28 AM |
paco18
|
"paco, that was a snide piece of chauvinistic drivel!" And any of it untrue? One thing I’ve noticed that can count is your history of hypersensitivity. Perhaps that’s a good history’s mystery. Reply #69. Mar 29 09, 11:21 AM |
| daver852
|
Shakespeare's sonnets van be divided roughly into three classes. The ones you speak of were written to a young man, probably the son of a nobleman, urging him to marry and carry on his line. To infer from this that the author was gay or bi-sexual is quite a stretch. And if you want to believe that Stratford was some kind of Elizabethan Berkeley, more power to you. None of this is relevant, however, as to the issue of who wrote the works we know know as Shakespeare's. All the known evidence argues against it being the actor from Stratford. I do not believe it was the Earl of Oxford; many of his writings survive, and they are second-rate at best. Francis Bacon's writings do not resemble Shakespeare's in the least. But Marlowe's do - to an incredible degree. In addition, known facts about Marlowe's life are reflected in both the plays and sonnets. New facts about the authorship controversy are still being uncovered, and I suspect when enough facts are known it will be Kit Marlowe who gets the credit, not Will Shakespeare. Reply #70. Mar 29 09, 1:51 PM |
| Cymruambyth
|
paco, re your post #69. You maintained that Amelia Earhardt crashed every plane she ever flew. Not so. She had her share, true, but if you look at flight records for the early days of flight, crash landings were not as rare as they are now, regardless of who was at the controls! Check Lindbergh's record, for instance. Reply #71. Mar 29 09, 4:02 PM |
sme733
|
There are a number of mysteries I would like to have solved, including: -Who murdered William Desmond Taylor? -Did Bruno Richard Hauptmann kidnap and kill Charles Lindberg Jr? If not, who did? -Who was Jack the Ripper? -Did Marilyn Monroe commit suicide, die of an accidental overdose, or was she murdered? -who is the Zodiac killer? Reply #72. Mar 29 09, 5:26 PM |
| Cymruambyth
|
Evidently, the Zodiac Killer case is still open in some California jurisdictions. One wonders what happened to the Zodia since the killer has been inactive for some 40 years and serial killers don't usually suspend their murderous activities unil they are caught. Is he dead, perhaps? Reply #73. Mar 30 09, 8:46 PM |
Mark_Simonson
|
Of what religion did Hitler associate himself with? I've heard once or twice that he was a Christian. Reply #74. Apr 13 09, 4:33 PM |
Arpeggionist
|
Hitler was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church. Whether one can say he kept up with the articles of Christian faith as an adult is up to debate. Reply #75. Apr 14 09, 7:02 AM |
mjws1968
|
Like most people of Austria and Bavaria he was raised as a Catholic, and remained so until his death. He kept his religious activities out of the public domain, and all statements about his religion as an adult come in the form of propaganda, and are therefore suspect. His hatred of atheism at a state level was one of the reasons he hated Stalin and Russia so much, but religion was used as a propaganda tool by the Nazi party, they used elements of pre-Christian roman religion, flirted with elements of eastern religions, of course made heavy use of mysticism, hence the search for the Spear of Destiny and other relics of a mystical nature. Hitler himself seemed to maintain a kind of religious neutrality. Documents were uncovered a while back that showed that the Nazis planned to eradicate Christianity after the war had been successfully concluded, some sort of state religion, with Hitler as divine intermediary was the likely replacement, but in the early stages of the rise of the Nazis they needed allies wherever they could get them. Its a difficult field of study, as truly unbiassed and objective documents are virtually non-existent. Reply #76. Apr 14 09, 8:43 AM |
Pagiedamon
|
One slightly osbscure mystery is the one regarding the Earl of Leicester (Robert Dudley, Queen Elizabeth I's paramour) and his wife Amy Robsart. There was a lot of talk about the queen being in love with Robert, and then Amy was found mysteriously dead. Apparently, she had fallen down the stairs and very conveniently died. Reply #77. Apr 14 09, 7:18 PM |
| Cymruambyth
|
Paige, one of history's mysteries for me is what QEI ever saw in Robert Dudley! Talk about your average, puffed-up-in-his-own conceit twits...he heads the list in my opinion. Reply #78. Apr 17 09, 11:16 AM |
| Pagiedamon
|
Cym, you know women often make poor choices in matters of love. :-) Even Gloriana. Reply #79. Apr 17 09, 12:02 PM |
Rowena8482
|
I read a novel once, based on "slight" evidence that Elizabeth I actually bore a child. The story followed the supposed child's life story, but the actual supposition was based in some scant facts. Apparently the Queen arrived at a particular manoe during a Royal Progress, took to her rooms, and it was put about that she had smallpox and so was in isolation apart from a few devoted servants. Eventually she emerged having survived unscathed. However, it is a matter of record that she later contracted smallpox whilst at her palace in London (which is accepted as fact) and it is impossible to get smallpox twice. The theory was that she in fact bore a child whilst secluded at the Manor, and the child was spirited away to be raised by a loyal family... I'd love to know if this was true or not, and if it were true, who the father was and what actually became of the child. Reply #80. Apr 22 09, 4:57 PM |
136 replies. On page 4 of 7 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Legal / Conditions of Use
|
|
: