Subject: Numerical anwsers and dates
Posted by: LeoDaVinci
Date: May 24 10
The quiz today is a prime example of why numerical answers and dates are a bad choice of question. If you'll notice in today's quiz on Hungary, any question that gives a date or a numerical answers, even if you do NOT know the answer, you can essentially reduce the question to a 50-50 guess. All you need to do is throw out the highest and lowest answers and one of the two remaining answers is one of the correct ones.
Also, in my opinion, dates and numbers are not really interesting tidbits of trivia and people usually remember names and ideas. Having a question or two of important dates is sometimes fun, but, more than that and the quiz becomes bland.
Posted by: LeoDaVinci
Date: May 24 10
The quiz today is a prime example of why numerical answers and dates are a bad choice of question. If you'll notice in today's quiz on Hungary, any question that gives a date or a numerical answers, even if you do NOT know the answer, you can essentially reduce the question to a 50-50 guess. All you need to do is throw out the highest and lowest answers and one of the two remaining answers is one of the correct ones.
Also, in my opinion, dates and numbers are not really interesting tidbits of trivia and people usually remember names and ideas. Having a question or two of important dates is sometimes fun, but, more than that and the quiz becomes bland.
32 replies. On page 1 of 2 pages. 1 2
Deunan 
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What types of quizzes would you prefer? Reply #1. May 24 10, 8:24 AM |
BxBarracuda
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I agree, most important dates and holidays coincide with a specific country or region, rather then having broader global significance. I would put dates I found memorable, and would want people to know as part of the question, rather than answer. Reply #2. May 24 10, 8:30 AM |
parrotman2006
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As a historian, I think it is useful to know dates. Not in and of themselves, but to keep track of the flow of history. While you may not need to know the exact date, knowing that the American Revolution happened in the 1770s rather than the 1920s prevents confusion. Or knowing that Henry VII was dead centuries before Abraham Lincoln came along. As to geographic questions, I think date questions are OK, as long as its just a few key dates. In the case of Hungary, the Hapsburg reference is important. Reply #3. May 24 10, 9:30 AM |
guitargoddess
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I think, though, for a lot of people who AREN'T historians, they'd rather be asked an interesting question about the event/time period than simply asked the exact date of something. Especially in a Geography quiz, not a History quiz. Reply #4. May 24 10, 9:48 AM |
unterkircher
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Don't mind the dates so much, except the birth dates of movie stars. But I don't like number answers concerning sports scores. I was told by an editor that one of my quiz questions was not a good one because I asked how many children a couple in a movie had, the reason being that it was a numerical answer. I am still rather new at quiz writing, but I've seen questions about how many children a certain president, monarch, or movie star has or had. I don't see what the big problem was with mine. Reply #5. May 24 10, 2:43 PM |
| unterkircher
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Being a social studies teacher for 25 years, I agree with parrotman about knowing who or what came first. Also, questions that just require a date are much easier to write. I usually avoided them except for the really big events, or I would give three or four events and have students put the in order of occurrence. Reply #6. May 24 10, 2:48 PM |
agony
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A lot of how we feel about date questions depends, I think, on if we know the date! In today's quiz, since I happen to know the date of the uprising was '56, I found it a good and easy question. However, for most people it was not a good question - the dates were too close together, and too difficult for someone who may not know details but has a broad grasp of the subject to get. Better, when speaking to a wide audience such as we have here, to have given one incorrect option from before WWII, one recent enough that most players would think "No, if it had happened then I'd remember it being on the news", and one from way back in time. Then, a player who knew little about Hungary but had a basic grasp of 20th century Europe could have narrowed it down. I don't mind date questions if it's possible to apply reason, rather than memorization, to them. Reply #7. May 24 10, 3:34 PM |
looney_tunes
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"Don't mind the dates so much, except the birth dates of movie stars." Actually, it doesn't matter what the subject of the date question is. If the question provides some information (or you should know it from good general knowledge) that allows a reasonable thought process to deduce the correct date, it works. I cannot abide questions where the options are four consecutive days in the same year, or the same date in four consecutive years. Only a slightly obsessive fan would know (of course, if you asked me one of those relating to John, George, Paul or Ring, that's another matter!). Bus Ride quizzes may be geography, history or world culture in their category, but I feel that they should be consistent with the chosen category. Many of them say they belong to Geography, presumably because they are about a country, but then focus more on dates and/or politics and/or other cultural features. It actually seems as if many of the authors think they should be offering information about the culture of the country, in which case they should be writing a World quiz. It is not just dates, of course, which provide a challenge for quiz writers. Especially when writing quizzes about subjects which you know will be unfamiliar to many of those who take the quiz, the challenge is to provide accessibility and also to make the II provide information that will help them remember the new fact you have just presented. Reply #8. May 25 10, 4:01 AM |
| unterkircher
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Again from the teacher view, the study of geography includes both physical and cultural characteristics of a country, region, etc. I don't have a problem with Bus quizzes including questions about culture. Reply #9. May 25 10, 5:44 AM |
LeoDaVinci
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My point wasn't the fact that the questions are about dates or that there are numerical answers, it's that the question essentially becomes a 50-50 question once you throw out the two extremes (earliest and latest date or the highest and lowest answer). Some questions about dates are good, it's the era that I think is more important. I don't think it's as important to know when Leonardo Da Vinci was born or passed away like it is to know that he was a Renaissance artist and therefore in the late 15th or early 16th century (1452 to 1519 if you were worried about my namesake). Questions about numbers are useful in some cases, but, let people who have an inkling as to the magnitude of the number to be able to work it out. Reply #10. May 25 10, 9:18 AM |
| Deunan
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William Shakespeare, according to records, was born on April 23, 1564. He died on April 23, 1616. Granted these records may not be accurate. To me, these two dates are ones which should be remembered. The major aspect of Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci I remember most is his curiosity and the vastness of his knowledge. Yet, I also remember he was born on tax day in America (yet in 1452). What I care about in a quiz is I learn something. How the author wishes to teach me is entirely up to him or her as long as the guidelines in FT are followed. Reply #11. May 25 10, 9:44 AM |
| looney_tunes
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My comment about too much culture in a geography quiz is related to the instructions in the categories. They state that if the quiz is PRIMARILY about culture it goes in World; if it is PRIMARILY about history it goes in History; if it is in Geography, there should be no more than 2 or 3 questions about culture or history. On the Bus Ride, any of these foci would be interesting. It's just good to choose the appropriate category! Reply #12. May 25 10, 11:10 PM |
| PDAZ
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Totally agree, Looney_tunes -- a personal pet peeve of mine! Reply #13. May 26 10, 7:27 AM |
queproblema
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Avoiding the tempting rabbit trails on this page, I totally agree with Leo's header and Post #10 (and with all the others that mention eras and flow of history, etc.). Two things, then, for authors to watch: 1. Avoid making the right date be one of the two middle ones. 2. Avoid bunching up dates--who cares if it was April the 11 or 12 or 13? or 1846, 47, or 48? Bottom line, though--every quiz passes through an editor, so, please, dear editors, weed these out before a quiz goes online. (And let's not gripe about the existing ones, FUN Trivia-ites!) :) Reply #14. May 26 10, 11:29 AM |
| Deunan
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Rabbit trails? Reply #15. May 26 10, 12:52 PM |
flopsymopsy
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Rabbit trails? :O What's wrong with them? Reply #16. May 26 10, 1:33 PM |
| looney_tunes
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Not on the Bus Ride, but in the Global Challenge, I got an example of irritating use of dates today. The question asked when and where the Imperial Family was killed. Fromt he original quiz, we were talking Russia, so I knew Ekaterinburg and 1918. Only two answers included Ekaterinburg, so I had to choose between June 16, 1918 and June 17, 1918. And the question said that this should be easy, but might be hard for some! I know, if it's in GC it's ancient history, and it isn't wrong, but it feels futile. Changing the year for one of them would have meant that a general historical knowledge made it possible to choose the correct answer. Editors have enough trouble finding time to make sure all quizzes submitted actually meet category requirements - they really don't have time to also check that all options are good! Authors need to think a bit more carefully about the experience for quiz-takers. As every teacher knows, constructing a good and discriminating multiple-choice question is an art that requires lots of practice. Reply #17. May 26 10, 4:00 PM |
Tizzabelle
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I agree with not bunching up the dates as mentioned before. :-) Is anyone else a little frustrated with questions that ask something like "Country X is closest in size to which US state?" Not being from the US I have to picture a maps of several different continents and the countries within them and in the end I guess. I could go to World Facts Book or similar but if I'm confident of getting 50% or more in a quiz I have a wild stab in the dark on those questions. I do try to research all the other questions but those questions seem a bit pointless to me. Is it just me or am I being lazy? ;-) Reply #18. May 29 10, 12:32 PM |
| looney_tunes
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Asking questions about the size of a country seems to me a reasonable thing, but just giving a list of numbers is not user-friendly, so comparisons to other places are a useful way to present the information. As is the case with dates, those questions bother me when the answers are not clearly different. Whether it is US states or European countries, the options should have enough difference that someone with only a superficial familiarity could make a reasonable guess. The fact that some countries are smaller in size that the metropolitan area of some cities is interesting - just reading the number doesn't have the same impact. I have used a question like this on occasion, but would hope that deciding between the correct option, Rhode Island (known to be the smallest state), Texas and Alaska (known to the the largest states) is not too US-biased. Or, using European countries, choosing between the correct answer, Andorra, Liechtenstein and Russia again makes it a reasonably accessible question, while providing an interesting comparison about the size. But deciding between Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Kansas (or France, Germany, Spain and Italy) is of no particular interest. Reply #19. May 29 10, 7:13 PM |
| parrotman2006
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Even if you live in the US, the comparative states questions are difficult. You have to know the size of the country they are talking about and then compare it to the various US states. Now if it's the difference between California and Ohio, that's easy. But if it's New Jersey vs Indiana, that becomes more difficult. Reply #20. May 30 10, 4:06 PM |
32 replies. On page 1 of 2 pages. 1 2
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