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    "Not on your Nellie!" is a rather definite negative statement in English, but who is this Nellie?

    Question #72327. Asked by davejacobs. (Nov 15 06 2:21 PM)


    lanfranco

    Alas, it appears that there isn't (or wasn't) an actual lady called Nellie. The expression is a short version of an example of rhyming slang. This site explains:


    http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nellie.htm

    Nov 15 06, 2:38 PM
    wdwfla

    Another curious expression my father used back in the 1940s was not on your Nellie, which some authorities think had been imported from the USA about ten years beforehand. Like Charlie it sounds home-grown, to the extent that it has been suggested that it is actually a piece of London-based rhyming slang: “Nellie” = “Nellie Duff” = “puff”. There was certainly an older slang phrase in existence: not on your puff, meaning “not on your life; never” in which “puff” means “breath” and so “breath of life” and so life itself.

    To suggest that it was in fact rhyming slang needs some explanation of this supposed person Nellie Duff. Now duff has a number of senses. One of them appears in plum duff where it is just a regional pronunciation of dough. Another sense is “useless; rubbish; counterfeit”, once a common British word, and one which was taken to the US by Scottish settlers. So it is probable that the two mildly disparaging words were put together just to make the rhyme. This happened with another defunct expression Nellie Bligh for “fly” (the name of the much-traduced captain of the Bounty had by the late 1930s become a conventional term for someone tyrannical or deeply unpleasant, no doubt helped along by Charles Laughton). It may also have been linked for its inventors with memories of a late nineteenth-century slangy rhyming couplet: “Did he marry poor Nell? / Did he hell!”.

    I’d love to find that there really had been a Nellie Duff and that there could be an opportunity to ask her shade (for she surely must by now have passed to her heavenly reward) what she thought of her name. If it were me, I’d have changed it, quick.

    http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nellie.htm

    Nov 15 06, 2:41 PM
    wdwfla

    I found a bit more information. It is a trunkated expression that meant "not likely" because it was based on the traditional song "Nelly the Elephant" and the full phrase was an expression about being about as likely as riding into town on somebody else's elephant.

    http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/20/messages/181.html

    Nov 15 06, 3:13 PM
    Baloo55th

    In support of Nellie Duff, there is a still current English expression with the same meaning: 'Not on your life!'. I've never heard any suggestion that it is an American expression in origin.

    Nov 15 06, 3:44 PM
    lanfranco

    I have to agree, Baloo. Wdw's information came from the same site (a British site) that I posted, and the "Nelly the Elephant" claim includes no evidence. I'd love to see the lyrics for that song, though.

    Nov 15 06, 5:58 PM
    Baloo55th

    I can't get into Mudcat, but from Nellie's English Bookstore (of Japan!) here's a correct version (unlike the strange spellings and verse shapes you get whenever the Toy Dolls are involved). There is no riding of Nellie into town, or anything like, except for her leading the grand parade:
    Verse 1

    To Bombay
    A traveling circus came
    They brought an intelligent elephant
    And Nellie was her name
    One dark night
    She slipped her iron chain
    And off she ran to Hindustan
    And was never seen again

    Verse 2

    Nellie the Elephant packed her trunk
    And said goodbye to the circus
    Off she went with a trumpety-trump
    Trump, trump, trump
    Nellie the Elephant packed her trunk
    And trundled back to the jungle
    Off she went with a trumpety-trump
    Trump, trump, trump
    Verse 3

    Night by night
    She danced to the circus band
    When Nellie was leading the big parade
    She looked so proud and grand
    No more tricks
    For Nellie to perform
    They taught her how to take a bow
    And she took the crowd by storm

    Verse 4

    The head of the herd was calling
    Far, far away
    They met one night in the silver light
    On the road to Mandalay
    So Nellie the Elephant packed her trunk
    And said goodbye to the circus
    Off she went with a trumpety-trum
    Trump, trump, trump
    http://www.nellies.jp/about_us/index.php?PHPSESSID=583aa767cfc23c61e21c071409ba3453

    Nov 16 06, 8:50 AM


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