Subject: Grammar, Grammar, Grammar!
Posted by: Lochalsh
Date: Sep 07 10
What error in grammar disturbs you most, gives you a fingernail-across-chalkboard sensation? For me, it's "for you and I." Would a person ever say "Oh, is it for I?" No? Then why would that same individual say "for you and I"?
Stop me before I start in on the nominative vs. accusative stuff! :)
Posted by: Lochalsh
Date: Sep 07 10
What error in grammar disturbs you most, gives you a fingernail-across-chalkboard sensation? For me, it's "for you and I." Would a person ever say "Oh, is it for I?" No? Then why would that same individual say "for you and I"?
Stop me before I start in on the nominative vs. accusative stuff! :)
295 replies. On page 7 of 15 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
daver852 
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Another difference between American and English is spelling. Why anyone would throw in an unnecessary "u" in words like "color" is beyond my ken. Or why would a person write "theatre" when they mean "theater?" Although I have to admit I do follow British spelling when it comes to the "double l" in words like "marvellous." Reply #121. Sep 29 10, 11:57 PM |
Cymruambyth
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Easy explanation for that, daver. American spelling was standardized based on English spelling used in the 16th and 17th centuries. Americans also use verb forms which have long since fallen out of use in the UK - gotten for got is the most common, but I have also heard boughten for bought. Reply #122. Sep 30 10, 12:14 AM |
houston1127
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Cym, that is interesting. You imply that much American grammar and usage is based on the period of major emigration from the Home Islands to the new country(sixteenth and seventeenth centuries for America). The usage and grammar was in flux in England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland and the contemporary usage made its way overseas. I wonder if that also holds true for other areas of British emigration? Do the Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Canadians, or, heck, the Falkland Islanders have certain grammar peculiaralities (jesus lord, is that a word?) that are "time-stamped" by their period of emigration? Reply #123. Sep 30 10, 12:41 AM |
| houston1127
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When I hear the phrase "I was like" followed by anything other than a simile my brain shuts down for about ten seconds. It is similar to the victim of a sudden trauma whose memory is blanked to protect their fragile conciousness. I cannot stand the growing usage of "I was like....". For example, a normal recounting of witnessing a dog hit by a car might be: "I was stunned and sickened to see that poor beast run over." That's fine. But, contrast: "I was like, Oh my God! They just killed that dog! Ewwwwwwww!" Instead of using adjectives to describe how they feel, "I was like..." is followed by a sentence of what they would have said or thought at the moment. It is a gross mis-usage of grammar and probably reflects on their thought processes as well. "I was like....." has gone from American teenage girl slang(where it should have been quarantined) to common American usage. I saw a commercial the other day where a grown man (forty-ish, balding, wearing glasses) actually said something to the effect: "I was like, how will switching to Vonage help me save money?" A grown man! Jesus, help us all! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=and%20i%20was%20like%20ahh Reply #124. Sep 30 10, 1:21 AM |
romeomikegolf
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daver, I think it's time you accepted that American English is an illegitimate form of a language that is several centuries older than the country you live in. It wasn't us that added the 'u' in various words, it was your countrymen that removed it. Reply #125. Sep 30 10, 2:20 AM |
| houston1127
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Yeah, Daver, according to RMG the Elizabethan/Shakespearean flowering of the English language should be the ideal to which we aspire. "A dictionary, a dictionary, my Kingdom for a dictionary!" Reply #126. Sep 30 10, 2:37 AM |
leelee63
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I don't get the translation of English humour to English humor either. Daver did say he does follow the double "L". That reminds me of song by Mr. Young with the lyrics: When Edith and Earl renamed the Double E They nearly made history The locals rose up, some of them were mad as hell Cause it used to be the Double L Change comes slow in the country When you're new there's a lot of distrust Years fly by uneventful Memories turn to dust I know this isn't grammar, but out of curiosity, is it the norm across the pond for people to cross their 7's and Z's when writing? Most people in the States do not. My 7th grade math teacher also put a slash through a 0 (zero) so it wouldn't be confused with an 0 (oh). Reply #127. Sep 30 10, 2:47 AM |
| romeomikegolf
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The cross through a 7 or Z isn't normally used here. It seems to be a European thing. My German relatives nearly all cross the 7. The slash through a 0 or O isn't usual either, we tend to be able to tell the difference. You don't get many zero's in the middle of words :) Reply #128. Sep 30 10, 4:12 AM |
lesley153
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We don't cross Z or 7 in Blighty. I've never come across a crossed Z ("zed") but people who cross their sevens are either French or pretending to be. I think. People in Europe put a big sweeping tail on 1, which would otherwise make it look a bit too much like 7. I'm glad I'm not alone with a brain that shuts down. Not at I'm Like, like Houston, but at the word partner. "This is my partner." Right - I didn't know you were in partnership - oh hang on is it a business partnership you're talking about? or a romantic-type partnership? and what have you been saying for the last ten seconds? What on earth is wrong with boyfriend, girlfriend, betrothed, spouse, other half, better half, worse half, beloved? There's no ambiguity in any of that little lot. That wasn't grammar either - sorry! Reply #129. Sep 30 10, 4:17 AM |
| lesley153
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Perhaps the slashed 0 is from computers? Reply #130. Sep 30 10, 4:18 AM |
channe
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I so totally agree about "partner". In what? Crime? Business? Life-Partner is a new buzz word that sounds more like a judicial sentence than a loving relationship. Partner shmartner. Reply #131. Sep 30 10, 4:27 AM |
| lesley153
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I've even heard people who are so keen to appear to be buzzing that they call their spouse their partner. I like the sound of that: Partner Shmartner. I'm going to steal it. :) Reply #132. Sep 30 10, 5:01 AM |
REDVIKING57
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OK,OK,I confess! I almost always use the term 'Partner'. Could someone pass me a hair-shirt,please? :)) However,in my defence,please consider the following: "Girlfriend" - We are both far too 'mature' for that option. At our age,it would be faintly ridiculous! "Betrothed" - Just a little medieval,or Shakespearian(?),for me. EG: "May I introduce my betrothed,Julie?". Can you imagine the reaction? "Who does he think he is? Othello?" No,I'm not for pledging my troth! "Spouse" - Such an ugly word! Sounds like something you do in the toilet after a bad kebab or curry. YUK! "Other/Better Half" - Very patronising,IMO. And implies a Superior/Inferior relationship - well it does to me,anyway. "Beloved" - Well,my partner is beloved by everyone that's ever met her. Besides,it's a bit like the previously discounted 'throthing'! No,"Partner" does me just fine! That's in Life,Love,Business,Continuation of our Species - and Crime! And,as we've been together almost six times as long as my previous two 'partnerships' (marriages) combined, the term "Life Partner" will do me just fine! WooHoo! I must be Buzzing! :)) Reply #133. Sep 30 10, 6:32 AM |
| Lochalsh
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I've heard the crossed seven referred to as the "engineer's seven." Precision's crucial in that field, and it's sometimes necessary to distinguish a hastily-written 'seven' from a quickly-dashed-off 'one.' I think the word 'partner' is quite all right. Not everyone needs or desires to broadcast the exact nature of his or her relationship with another person. It's shorthand. Reply #134. Sep 30 10, 7:24 AM |
| Lochalsh
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In Spanish, 'esposo' is male spouse and 'esposa' is female spouse. 'Esposos'=husbands or husbands and wives and 'esposas' =wives--or handcuffs. I will never support the term 'spouse' precisely because I don't want to be reminded of that last little lexical nugget. :/ Reply #135. Sep 30 10, 7:36 AM |
jonnowales
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I cross 7s and Zs but not 0s. If you cross a zero in science it could be mistakenly believed to be a 'theta'. Lochalsh has explained the 7/1 problem, hence the cross on the seven. When there is a particularly long alpha-numeric problem needing to be solved which involves both Z and 2, there is the chance that they could be confused, especially if the equations are scrawled - hence the cross on the Z. This is just the way I do it though, many of my fellow physics students don't bother crossing 7 and Z. I say [new clear] for nuclear but that is due to my lousy Welsh accent which I am trying to get rid of. :) I don't mind the use of partner but if it is to be used I understand why it would be baffling to the other person in the conversation. It is so very vague. Reply #136. Sep 30 10, 7:36 AM |
Deunan
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Husband uses the "cross through" when he writes a 7 or a Z. While he doesn't remember who taught him to do so, he suspects it is due to his parents being from Europe. As some people write their 2s the same as their 7s, perhaps the usage of the extra mark is how they tell the difference. I will sometimes do the same but habits are hard to break so I usually just write them as 7 and Z without the "cross through". I like the term "life partner". Reply #137. Sep 30 10, 7:46 AM |
s-m-w
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What an enjoyable thread: It looks (reading the thread) that it is perhaps time to call English, English and American English, American. My thanks to Cym for the reason for the differences, had often wondered about this but never bothered to find out why the American language sounded and looked slightly out of kilter. As for crossing the number 7 and Z, guilty as charged, I always do this without thinking, so the European explanation is correct. Bottom line for me with grammar is although it is important for understanding purposes; it does not make those who are always correct any more interesting. Do not really think that a chat page would be improved by the grammar police giving marks out of ten for content. Reply #138. Sep 30 10, 7:59 AM |
| Deunan
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"had often wondered about this but never bothered to find out why the American language sounded and looked slightly out of kilter." Interesting....I would never have been so bold as to state the English (British) language sounded and looked slightly out of kilter. Each to their own. Frankly, (British) English is a joy to hear and read and I cherish each and every Britian I've had the pleasure to meet. On a side note, I've remember someone from my childhood who called their Grandmother "Grammar". Considering she was aged four at the time, I doubt anyone called her to task for doing so. Reply #139. Sep 30 10, 8:11 AM |
| jonnowales
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I quite like some US pronunciation but I cringe whenever I hear someone say 'erbs (herbs). It spoils my enjoyment of 'Barefoot Contessa'! :D It is probably because the Welsh drop a lot of Hs: "Right, I'll take you to the 'ospital in a minute now" "This is my 'ouse, you will do as I say" And so on... Reply #140. Sep 30 10, 8:20 AM |
295 replies. On page 7 of 15 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
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