Science Fiction Interpretations

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Subject: Science Fiction Interpretations

Posted by: brm50diboll
Date: Jan 02 17

I have debated with myself starting a Virtual Blog for months. I have so little free time nowadays that I may not be able to keep it up, but I think I'll at least try. This is intended to be wide-ranging, so it wouldn't fit in the Television, Movies, or Literature boards categories and I don't want to clog up General with just my observations but here I can rant if I choose and people can choose to ignore me or engage my flawed analysis if they wish.

469 replies. On page 11 of 24 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

brm50diboll

Funny thing is, Sulu actually was in temporary command of the Enterprise in several Star Trek episodes. But Stocker took over. As far as comparing present-day naval regulations with Star Fleet regulations, I couldn't say. I was a captain in the US Army and never was a "space cadet" (despite what some might think). But I did read somewhere that in the navy, commodore was a rank used only in wartime, and that in peacetime, the equivalent rank was rear admiral, junior grade.

Reply #201. Apr 14 18, 4:09 PM

C30

brm...............different navy, different ships!...........by that I mean in the RN, Commodore is an actual rank, as well as sometimes being an honorary title given to the senior captain of a group of ships.

Captain.......................4 thick stripes
Commodore.................1 Broad stripe
Rear Admiral................1 Broad Stripe and 1 Thick stripe

Thus is senior to a Captain, but junior to Rear Admiral........is this the same as your "Rear Admiral, junior grade"?

Reply #202. Apr 15 18, 3:36 AM

nasty_liar

I know that you would be right C30 in what you say but Star Trek has its own version of military ranks and what is correct procedure in situations as above. It's generally called, "whatever the plot needs it to be".

In the original series the conflict written into the plot for Kirk would be a commisioner or commodore coming aboard and threatening to 'take command' via some nonsense directive or such because the situation demands. Examples of this can be seen in 'Galileo Seven' and 'A Taste of Armageddon'. In Galileo Seven (one of my all time favourites) the commisioner on board keeps coming to the bridge to threaten Kirk that he will invoke his authority and this is added to create tension over the fact that Kirk needs to stop searching for his landing party and head off to treat some plague on a neighbouring planet.

Sometimes the situation as C30 tells it is upheld. In Star Trek: The Next Gen episode 'Arsenal of Freedom' both Picard, Riker and Data are indisposed on the planet and Lt. junior grade Geordi Laforge is left in command. As you say he is part of the command crew and that is logical, but in true Star Trek fashion tension is created when the Chief Engineer Lt (full grade) Leech comes to the bridge and tries to take command because he outranks Geordi. Who then refuses (but subsequently compromises by separating the ship and sending Leech away in command of the saucer section).

Reply #203. Apr 15 18, 5:24 AM

C30

All what you say is true Nasty.........the dictates of the plot and the need to feature the "stars" of the series, determine the rules.

I mean, NO WAY would a "Landing Party" be composed of the most senior officers of a ship...............would be a VERY junior officer and a bunch of "other ranks".

Still I had best stop hijacking the thread and let it return to original purpose.

Reply #204. Apr 15 18, 11:21 AM

brm50diboll

I appreciate the commentary, actually. The original series was full of such illogical inconsistencies. The whole business of having the most senior officers on the ship almost always being in the landing party was so blatant that when the Next Generation came around, they went out of their way to keep Picard on the ship and have Riker lead the landing party because of all the criticism from fans of Star Trek who had said the same things mentioned above.

Reply #205. Apr 15 18, 11:57 AM

nasty_liar

Yes, usually Picard very rigidly sticks to that. One of the exceptions is that sane episode I mention, ‘Arsenal of Freedom’, when he beams down immediately upon learning that Riker has been encased in a type of force field and the ‘away team’ is under fire from an increasingly advanced adversary. So obviously the logical decision is for both he and the chief medical officer to beam down!

Because this decision is such a departure from how the character usually acts it is an even more glaring plot device to have all of the senior officers off of the ship.

Just to briefly mention that episode has got a worthy science fiction theme, the civilisation that created weaponry so advanced and intelligent that it destroyed then all. Sadly this theme is almost treated like a footnote by the episode, barely addressed at all.

Reply #206. Apr 15 18, 12:14 PM

Litecruzer

I appreciate this conversation too, thanks guys. In speaking of the chain of command structures, it reminded me of Commodore Decker who did pull rank on first officer Spock when Captain Kirk was on board the Commodore's dying ship, in "The Doomsday Machine" episode. With Kirk's direct fervent order as Captain, Spock assumed command again, with finally resorting to a pending arrest of the mentally traumatized Commodore.
It's interesting how Commodore has different standings in various command settings.

Reply #207. Apr 15 18, 12:47 PM

brm50diboll

The story about how "The Doomsday Machine" was made was an interesting one. William Shatner had already become notorious for his overacting and scenery-chewing that he has been much-parodied for, even today. When the idea for "The Doomsday Machine" was pitched to series creator Gene Roddenberry, he said he wanted to bring in a guest star to play the role of Commodore Decker who was even more over-the-top than William Shatner. The solution was obvious: William Windom. Anyone who has seen that episode knows that Windom did indeed out-Shatner Shatner.

Reply #208. Apr 15 18, 1:47 PM

Litecruzer

Ha ha, I have to agree with that! William Windom did an over-the-top, but a great performance as a commander who lost his entire crew and understandably wanted justice. I read that James Doohan(Scotty) was impressed with his delivery of this tormented Commodore.

Reply #209. Apr 15 18, 2:14 PM

Creedy

I love all the "Star Trek" series, but "Voyager" is my favourite :)

Reply #210. May 04 18, 3:45 AM

brm50diboll

I favor the Original Series, but today is not the day to discuss Star Trek. It is Star Wars Day.

May the Fourth be with you.

Reply #211. May 04 18, 6:38 AM

Jazmee27

Never got into that series. I am, however, reading a novel (well, listening to it) with similar command structure. Except you have some of the officers being dropped out of the fleet for supposed dishonorable conduct.

And there are different spires who go to battle against each other

Reply #212. May 04 18, 6:46 AM

brm50diboll

I think I will discuss Ray Bradbury's Something Wicked This Way Comes today. The title comes from a line in Shakespeare's play Macbeth, spoken by one of the witches about Macbeth. The story is both a novel and a movie, but it is more complicated than that. Bradbury originally wrote it as a screenplay in 1958, intending it to be a vehicle for Gene Kelly, but it was not picked up at that time and he converted it into a novel that was published in 1962. Bradbury continued to shop around the screenplay, which studios purchased, intending to develop it into vehicles for actors like Kirk Douglas, among others, but these plans kept falling through and the screenplay rights were sold to new studios. Finally, Walt Disney got the rights and did manage to make the movie, which came out in 1983, but it was a very troubled production. The details of all of this, which I find interesting, can be found in the Wikipedia article on the movie.

The final version of the movie starred Jason Robards and Jonathan Pryce and was not very successful, most likely because the story is intrinsically dark and not well suited for a Disney production, despite Disney's efforts to make it more "family friendly". But I enjoyed the movie anyway, though it would've been intriguing to have seen it done by a different studio more in line with Bradbury's vision. The Fall Carnival idea was fun, as immediately it brings to mind a Halloween twist on the usual summer carnival idea, with the members of the carnival unwilling participants pulled into it by exploiting their psychological weaknesses by Mr. Dark, played by Pryce, who I found very threatening. I have enjoyed Pryce's roles in various movies ever since.

So there is a carousel in the carnival which, when it spins forward, causes people to age, and when it spins backwards, causes people to become younger. Pryce asks Robards (who feels he is too old for his son) if he would like to be 25 again. As Robards stands firm in resisting Pryce's offers, Pryce rips pages from a book: 25? No. 26? No. 27? and so on. Very interesting scene. The boys manage to defeat Mr. Dark and redeem their relationships. The whole movie has an expanded Twilight Zone-like feel to it.

Bradbury actually did write one episode of The Twilight Zone - "I Sing the Body Electric". I suppose he is best known for The Martian Chronicles and Fahrenheit 451, but there is a lot more to Ray Bradbury than that.

Reply #213. May 14 18, 11:53 AM

brm50diboll

I don't read much in the way of actual books. Most of what I read is articles. I do try to read at least one real book in the summer when I have more free time, but I haven't decided yet. However, I am doing a lot of "binge watching", some new shoes which are ongoing or just recently completed their seasons, and some which have long been off the air but which I missed (except for a few stray episodes) back when they were on the air and they interested me enough that I am now going back to catch all the episodes. My current list of shows I have been (and, for most of them, still am) watching is:

Season 2 of Westworld on HBO
Season 2 of The Handmaid's Tale on Hulu
Season 4 of Black Mirror on Netflix
Season 4 of The Flash on the CW

And the oldies:

Lost
Quantum Leap
Scrubs (Yeah, I realize this last one isn't science fiction. But it is so funny. I love John McGinley as Dr. Cox.)

I'll probably get around to commenting about some of these on this blog eventually.

Reply #214. Jun 01 18, 11:19 AM

brm50diboll

Shows, not shoes. I hate typos.

Reply #215. Jun 01 18, 11:22 AM

terraorca

I enjoyed Quantum Leap quite a bit, from what I can remember of it.

Reply #216. Jun 05 18, 12:19 PM

brm50diboll

Yeah, the physics behind the premise is ridiculous, but, if you suspend disbelief anyway, the stories are interesting. For anyone who is unfamiliar, Quantum Leap starred Scott Bakula as Dr. Sam Beckett, a physicist (actually, in the series he has seven doctorates, so he is a polymath genius) who has invented a process that causes him to go back in time (within his own lifetime, so basically the 1950s-1980s) to inhabit other people's bodies to try to accomplish some "mission" that will change history for the better. His guide, Al, is played by Dean Stockwell, is visible and audible as a hologram only to him (with a few exceptions, like small children, animals, crazy people) and is able to run various scenarios through a computer called "Ziggy" that helps Sam accomplish his "mission". When Sam inevitably does accomplish his mission at the end of the episode, he then "leaps" randomly in time and place into another body for the next mission. Sam is unable to control who he leaps into. To the viewer, he looks like Scott Bakula, but to everyone else (save for Al and the aforementioned exceptions), he looks and sounds like the person who has "leaped into". But when Sam looks into a mirror, he sees the reflection of who he has "leaped into". He doesn't ever change major events of history, but he does save people who otherwise would have died in historical events and occasionally meets historical figures (a la Forrest Gump, although that sort of thing only happens rarely.) Sometimes the plots are more serious, sometimes they are played as more comic relief. Some of the more entertaining episodes are when Sam leaps into a woman and spends the whole episode in drag fending off male suitors. He will also leap into people of different races, and these such episodes usually focus on racism. The first and last episodes of each season usually have some unusual twist in them that is different from the other episodes, such as the time it is Al who leaps and Sam who is the observer, or when Sam leaps into himself as a teenager. It was an entertaining show, but I didn't really watch it when it was on the air in the '90s, but I'm watching it now.

Reply #217. Jun 05 18, 12:46 PM

Blackdresss

Brian, I asked where you had discussed "Westworld" in here, but I found and read it. Very interesting. But you're interacting online regarding this series, and I'm letting it all play out while I try to figure it out myself. I learned things from reading what you've written that I didn't figure out myself, like the anagram of Arnold's name.

Speaking of A.I. and being nice to A.I., so it will be nice to you, have you seen the movie "Her" with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansson? It's set in the not-so-distant future, and it's interesting that the only thing truly glaringly different about this future is that men wear their pants pulled up really high.

But I digress... Joaquin is lonely after his divorce, so he buys an interactive A.I. program, which is where Scarlett comes in. She's the "voice" in this entire film. And while he is very nice to his A.I., she is not quite as nice to him.

I'd love to hear what you think of this film, if you've seen it.

Reply #218. Jun 06 18, 5:19 PM

brm50diboll

I'm sorry I haven't seen "Her". I like Scarlett Johansson. There was this movie "Lucy" that she was in a few years ago that I really liked. I will have to look up "Her", but I apologize for not being as up on things as I wish I were. I've seen a description of another series called Altered Carbon that seems intriguing to me, but I just don't quite have the time for it right now. The idea of transferring human consciousness into android bodies is much older than Westworld. There were several episodes of the original series Star Trek which delved into that: "What are Little Girls Made Of?", "I, Mudd", and "Return to Tomorrow" all get into that. As for the idea of transferring human consciousness into virtual reality (most famously seen in The Matrix), this idea has also been around for a long time. In Season 3 of Black Mirror, the episode "San Junipero" makes this look like a great idea. But I think not. Attempts to do that are more likely to end up like Westworld's "The Riddle of the Sphinx" than "San Junipero."

Reply #219. Jun 06 18, 5:50 PM

Blackdresss

I liked the movie "Lucy." I think you would like "Her."

And you aren't interrupting by posting in that other Blog. Not at all.

I didn't realize Delos came from the original story. But now I'm tempted to find the site you talked about, so I can ask that program a few questions of my own.

I'm going to try to resist, though. I like not knowing where this is going, and figuring it out on my own. Evan Rachel Wood said she had no clue what the storyline was going to be, and she just pulled from her past to come up with all the emotions, and non-emotions, she needs for this series.

Sadly, she has one whacked past.

Reply #220. Jun 06 18, 6:39 PM

469 replies. On page 11 of 24 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

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