Subject: Grammar, Grammar, Grammar!
Posted by: Lochalsh
Date: Sep 07 10
What error in grammar disturbs you most, gives you a fingernail-across-chalkboard sensation? For me, it's "for you and I." Would a person ever say "Oh, is it for I?" No? Then why would that same individual say "for you and I"?
Stop me before I start in on the nominative vs. accusative stuff! :)
Posted by: Lochalsh
Date: Sep 07 10
What error in grammar disturbs you most, gives you a fingernail-across-chalkboard sensation? For me, it's "for you and I." Would a person ever say "Oh, is it for I?" No? Then why would that same individual say "for you and I"?
Stop me before I start in on the nominative vs. accusative stuff! :)
295 replies. On page 11 of 15 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Lochalsh
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Oddly enough, while drama is pronounced drah-mah, dramatic has two flat a sounds __________ Perhaps because "drama" is Greek and "dramatic" is English based on Greek? I'm not sure. Reply #201. Oct 01 10, 8:26 PM |
alaspooryoric 
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Pronoun/antecedent disagreement--I can't stand it when someone says, "Someone left their coat on the chair." "Their" is plural, and "someone" is singular. You can't use a plural pronoun to refer to a singular noun or pronoun. Reply #202. Dec 24 10, 10:20 AM |
lesley153
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In that particular example, it may be because they'd have to examine the coat to see if it was a man's or a woman's, and either they can't be bothered or it's hard to tell; or the fact that the coat is lost or forgotten is more important than its owner's gender... My immediate reaction to that example was to associate it with deep sarcasm. I grew up hearing sentences beginning with "someone" and they always meant: "Someone hasn't done the job and we all know who that someone is." Reply #203. Dec 24 10, 11:18 AM |
| alaspooryoric
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Actually, I wasn't attempting to be sarcastic. I prefer someone's saying, "Someone left his or her jacket on the chair" to "Someone left their jacket on the chair." Reply #204. Dec 24 10, 7:00 PM |
| alaspooryoric
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And to add one more point: one cannot say "Someone left his jacket on the chair" unless one can tell absolutely that the jacket belonged to a male. This kind of sexism in the language is apparent, likewise, in such statements as "A doctor should be good wih his patients" or "A police officer should be careful with his gun." Reply #205. Dec 24 10, 7:02 PM |
jonnowales
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A lot of authors (such as Jane Austen and Shakespeare) have treated "their" as a singular pronoun and not always in examples of gender neutrality. Reply #206. Dec 24 10, 7:35 PM |
| lesley153
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"Actually, I wasn't attempting to be sarcastic" That wasn't aimed at you - it was aimed at people I grew up with. Reply #207. Dec 24 10, 7:41 PM |
daver852
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Misuse of the subjunctive case, in particular saying "if . . . was" instead "if . . .were." "If I were a carpenter, and you were a lady . . ." Reply #208. Dec 24 10, 10:26 PM |
| Lochalsh
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The subjunctive mood does seem to be going out of style, but not for me. I'm with Daver: "If I were rich..." Reply #209. Dec 25 10, 12:43 AM |
ssabreman
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I really dislike the 'catchy' phrase 24/7. It's origin is uncertain, but probably by a rapper, according to wiki. It was picked up by teenagers who seemed to popularize it. When I hear adults use it, I cringe. It's become worse than a cliche. Is this another example of 'dumbing down' our language? Can we return to 'all the time' or 'all of the time' or 'every day'? Reply #210. Dec 25 10, 12:24 PM |
| alaspooryoric
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Shakespeare and Austen may have used "their" in the singular, but that does not make it correct. Popular use may determine that something is just that, popular. However, using "their" for the singular is not LOGICAL, mathematically speaking. Reply #211. Dec 25 10, 1:58 PM |
| ssabreman
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This doesn't seem to be a case of popularity, it's a matter of being widely used because it appears to be correct. See dictionary.com - Their - pronoun 2. (used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch? Reply #212. Dec 25 10, 3:10 PM |
| alaspooryoric
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Dictionaries seem to present this differently depending on which one you're looking at, at the time. However, I was basing what I was saying on grammar handbooks (like Little Brown and the Writer's Harbrace Handbook and so on). Also, I know I may be stubborn and perhaps a dinosaur, but I still feel an appeal to logic supersedes all other authorities. I hope I'm not misguiding my students in my composition classes. Reply #213. Dec 25 10, 3:41 PM |
| alaspooryoric
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By the way, I've not meant to be argumentative in any malicious way. I do recognize that there are two major schools of thought out there about grammar. One of them is that the rules evolve from the language that the majority of people are speaking at any given moment. The other is that rules are prescribed first and then the majority of speakers are asked to subscribe to those rules. I suppose I belong to the second group. Reply #214. Dec 25 10, 10:54 PM |
| jonnowales
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You haven't come across as argumentative at all. :) The problem with stating that the rules of English should be prescribed and then followed is that there is no official body that regulates the language such as that which controls the French language. People seem to choose a certain body, such as in one of your previous posts, out of personal choice or one that is forced upon them by employers. This decision is often subjective though that isn't to say the decision is ill-considered. I often rely on what I think sounds and feels right and this sometimes leads to my feeling contradicting "standard" usage. I will sometimes follow the "rule" that a sentence cannot be terminated with a preposition but if a sentence of mine breaks this rule but both - a) sounds right & b) makes sense - then I will feel quite content rebelling. With regards the singular nature of the word "their", you certainly have a strong case with the appeal to logic. I, however, don't have a strong inclination to regard it as purely singular. It feels equally correct to use it to refer to a quantity of one as to a quantity greater than one. This is one of those examples where I am happy to rebel against the "standard" and it appears as though countless authors have disregarded the construct over the centuries. Reply #215. Dec 25 10, 11:22 PM |
purelyqing
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When is it correct to say "ten days is too long" or should it always be "ten days are too long"? Reply #216. Jan 13 11, 10:49 PM |
| daver852
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The correct form is "ten days is too long." Reply #217. Jan 16 11, 9:09 PM |
| purelyqing
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Why is it so? Reply #218. Jan 20 11, 11:11 PM |
| lesley153
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*scratches head* "ten days is too long" means that a ten-day period is too long. "ten days are too long" would mean that ten of however many days are too long, with the implication that other days aren't too long at all. Does that work? Reply #219. Jan 21 11, 7:36 AM |
| daver852
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Because "ten days" is a specific period of time, i.e., a singular unit, and should take the verb "is" instead of "are." The best book on grammar I have ever read is "A Grammar Book For You and I . . . Oops, Me," by C. Edward Good. It explains things very clearly, and gives lots of examples. I'm still a bit at sea as to when to use "that" and "which," though. My personal approach is to write so as to make one's meaning clear, and if one breaks a few rules along the way, so be it. Reply #220. Jan 21 11, 12:17 PM |
295 replies. On page 11 of 15 pages. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
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